Jamal Digital Davis walked through the seven principles of inclusive design as they apply to market research and digital product development. He focused on how researchers and designers can bring more diverse users into the design and data collection process, reduce barriers for people with disabilities, and build internal advocacy for accessibility. The session included live Q&A covering software tools, budget constraints, rebranding challenges, and methods for accessibility user testing.
Key Takeaways
- Involve users with diverse needs as early as possible in the research and design process. Co-design, not just post-hoc testing, is the standard to aim for.
- Designing for users who are blind or severely visually impaired can surface roughly 80% of accessibility problems, because those users rely on the widest range of assistive technologies.
- Plain language is a practical starting point. In the U.S., targeting a seventh or eighth grade reading level is a reasonable baseline for broad populations.
- Voluntary accessibility product templates (VPATs) give teams a structured way to hold vendors accountable to specific accessibility standards.
- Small, demonstrable wins, such as A/B testing an accessible vs. non-accessible email campaign, are an effective way to build senior stakeholder support before pursuing larger changes.
- Legal risk is a real forcing function. Multiple large companies have faced lawsuits over inaccessible digital experiences, making early investment in accessibility a cost-avoidance measure as well as a design one.
Questions & Answers
- Where can attendees access the resources and links from the presentation?
- The full resource deck is in a Figma file. The link was shared in the session chat and was also made available via the conference Twitter account using the hashtag #ARVIC.
- What software or tools make it easiest to enable accessible environments, particularly for market research questionnaires?
- Start by checking the accessibility features built into whichever survey platform you use. SurveyMonkey, for example, publishes reports on its accessibility capabilities. Beyond platform choice, use plain language targeting around a seventh or eighth grade reading level, ensure logical hierarchy, and verify screen reader compatibility. The IBM and Microsoft accessibility toolkits, linked in the shared deck, also point to specific tools.
- How do you balance budget constraints with accessibility improvements for tools and platforms that are already built?
- First, audit existing tools to identify which already meet your accessibility standards. Then use Voluntary Accessibility Product Templates (VPATs) to build accountability into vendor relationships. Start with low-cost tests, such as an accessible vs. non-accessible email A/B test, to generate evidence for stakeholders. Also factor in legal risk: inaccessible digital experiences have resulted in lawsuits against major brands, so early investment in accessibility can prevent much larger costs later.
- How do you improve accessibility without triggering a full rebrand?
- Focus on small, fast wins first. Identify one thing you can test and demonstrate quickly, then use that result to make the case to senior stakeholders. Find internal allies who are already asking accessibility questions and build a shared culture around it. Frame it as something everyone will eventually benefit from personally, since most people will experience some form of sensory or cognitive decline as they age.
- What exercises help build empathy for users with disabilities?
- In workshops with product teams, ask participants to describe a time when a product or service excluded them or did not meet their needs. Then ask them to describe a time they felt genuinely included in a group or team experience. Connecting those feelings to the experience of being excluded from a digital product makes the impact concrete. Sharing real stories from people with disabilities, including personal connections, also helps ground abstract principles in lived experience.
- What are the best ways to test user experience for accessibility?
- Run moderated or unmoderated usability tests with users who have disabilities, prioritizing those who are blind or severely visually impaired because they surface roughly 80% of accessibility issues. Recruit at least seven to eight participants. Use platforms with built-in accessibility panels if recruiting your own pool is not feasible. Always have a note taker in sessions with screen reader users, since they often listen at very high speeds. Tabbing through your own tool with only a keyboard is a quick self-test you can do at any stage.
- Are there specific software tools for screen reading or contrast checking?
- Apple VoiceOver is a strong free starting point for screen reader testing on Apple devices. Color contrast checkers are included in the Microsoft Accessibility Toolkit, linked in the shared deck. Chrome browser extensions can simulate screen reader behavior. Sauce Labs offers cross-browser accessibility testing at a higher price point. WCAG 2.1 defines the current U.S. standards against which all of these tools can be benchmarked.
Session Notes
What Inclusive Design Means
Inclusive design is the practice of designing for as many people as possible, across as many diverse needs as possible. That means expanding beyond a single use case or a single population and asking which groups are being left out of the sample or excluded from the product experience. A key phrase in the disability and accessibility community captures the intent: nothing about us without us.
The co-design approach extends this further. Rather than designing something and then testing it on users, teams should bring users into the process as early as possible, especially users whose needs differ from the assumed default.
The Seven Principles of Inclusive Design
1. Provide a Comfortable Experience
Every user should be able to interact with the interface or data collection tool. If you are building a survey, verify that the tool is compatible with screen readers. Test with populations that vary not only by disability type but also by economic background and cultural context. Check that alt text is present and meaningful, and that any video content includes closed captions.
2. Consider the Situation
Think about the environment in which someone is completing your survey or using your product. A person on a bus using a phone faces different constraints than someone at a desktop. Make sure mobile tap targets are large enough, open-text fields are usable on small screens, and color contrast is sufficient. A significant portion of the population has some form of color blindness, so contrast is not a minor detail. Also account for varying levels of digital literacy, and ensure keyboard navigation is available for users who cannot use a mouse.
3. Be Consistent
Use design patterns and interface conventions that users already recognize. Changing elements purely for visual appeal can create friction for users who rely on predictable navigation. Run A/B tests before changing established patterns, and look at analytics to understand how users actually move through your tool. Reducing cognitive load is especially important for users who are less familiar with digital interfaces.
4. Give Control
Users should have a clear understanding of what they are consenting to and the ability to stop at any point. This applies to SMS research, focus groups, and survey tools alike. Give users the ability to scroll freely, zoom in and out, and self-identify using open fields rather than only preset lists. Consider randomizing dropdown or list options to avoid list-order bias affecting your data.
5. Offer Choice
Provide multiple ways to complete tasks and interact with content. People come from different cultural backgrounds and have different cognitive abilities. If users are dropping out of a survey, investigate whether the cause is an accessibility barrier, such as a pop-up that a screen reader cannot dismiss. Review web analytics through an accessibility lens, not just a behavioral one. Images should be properly sized and include descriptive alt tags. Where possible, offer alternative formats for any data or information being presented.
6. Prioritize Content
A clear information hierarchy is essential, especially for users navigating with a screen reader. Task flows should be logical and sequential. Form fields should be properly labeled so assistive technology can read them accurately. Error messages should be specific, explaining what went wrong and how to fix it, so users are not left stranded inside the experience.
7. Add Value
Communicate to participants why their input matters and how it will be used. The relationship between researcher and participant should be built on empathy, not just data extraction. Where appropriate, share consolidated findings back with users to demonstrate that their participation led to something. Make the core task as easy as possible to complete so that no one is excluded from contributing.
Testing for Accessibility
Accessibility testing follows the same basic structure as usability testing, moderated or unmoderated, but with specific focus on assistive technology. Testing with users who are blind or severely visually impaired is a high-leverage starting point because those users rely on the broadest range of adaptive technologies, and fixing issues for them tends to resolve the majority of accessibility problems across the board.
- Recruit seven to eight participants per study as a minimum for meaningful qualitative data.
- Many remote user testing platforms include pre-built accessibility panels of users with specific impairments.
- Record sessions and always have a note taker, because screen reader users often listen at very high speeds that are difficult to transcribe in real time.
- Practice tabbing through your own tool using only a keyboard to understand the experience from a screen reader user's perspective.
- Built-in options such as Apple VoiceOver are free starting points. Browser extensions for Chrome can also simulate screen reader behavior.
Building Internal Advocacy for Accessibility
For teams working within budget constraints or existing brand systems, the practical advice is to start small and build a visible case.
- Audit current tools and software to identify which already meet accessibility standards and which do not.
- Use Voluntary Accessibility Product Templates (VPATs) to formalize expectations with vendors.
- Run a quick A/B test on something low-cost, such as an email campaign, comparing an accessible version against the standard version, and share results with senior stakeholders.
- Frame accessibility investment as risk reduction. Several major U.S. companies, including Domino's and Target, have faced legal action over inaccessible digital experiences.
- Find internal allies who are already asking accessibility questions and build from that coalition.
A useful reframe for skeptical audiences: accessibility needs are not static. Situational impairments affect everyone, and aging affects most people eventually. Designing inclusively expands the pool of users who can access a product, which has a direct commercial benefit alongside the ethical one.
Resources Mentioned
- Microsoft Accessibility Toolkit
- Microsoft Inclusive Design Toolkit
- IBM and Apple accessibility guidelines
- Web Content Accessibility Guidelines (WCAG) 2.1, the current U.S. standard for web accessibility
- SurveyMonkey and other survey platforms publish reports on their own accessibility features
- Color contrast checker tools (referenced in the shared Figma deck)
- Sauce Labs (cross-browser accessibility testing, noted as a paid option)
The full resource list, including plugin links and further reading, is available in the Figma file shared in the session chat. Jamal Digital Davis can also be reached on LinkedIn for follow-up questions.
Transcript
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all righty well it's the top of the hour so we're about to get started again i hope everyone had a chance to go grab a coffee or a snack or possibly lunch all right before we get started again i'm going to go over the ground rules all right as always we are at the mercy of tech during these presentations so as smoothly as we try to make these things go we do have to writing the top of the hour so feedback happens i hope everyone had a chance to go grab a coffee or snack for possibly lunch before we get started again i'm gonna go over the gravel it's an excellent example of a tech i wasn't expecting i have some feedback on that all right yeah so we are at the mercy of tech we are gonna have run into some issues every now and again so please bear with us as we um try to solve any presentation or program errors as they appear please be respectful we know that it can be a bit easier to be a bit rude when you're hiding behind a screen but we try we want you to treat this as if you were in an in-person conference and in the same regards as you would at an in-person conference please continue to network engage and interact you can do that through the webinar chat or you can also use our our hashtag on twitter it's hashtag arbic as you can see on screen and uh please feel free to interact throughout the presentation at the end of the presentation we will be reading comments and questions alrighty with that i'm going to let jamal take over he's going to talk to us about inclusivity and design and accessibility awesome thank you let's see clapping listening to my screen all right got it okay sweet nice yeah so we're going to talk about uh making inclusive design accessible to everyone and exactly what does that mean and how can we um better think about pulling in different types of people into our research process when we are designing digital products and services i think one of the best places to like start at least with the inclusive design piece is going over the seven dm7 design principles of inclusive design so we can better pretty much understand these seven main things that we should all always be doing so we can have a um ground of of just like best practices to see maybe where we need to improve on one of the principles um that we may not be doing uh all the time as um as actual designers and also researchers and as builders of digital products and services um so when we gotta get into exactly like what is inclusive design how do we like break that down so people can better uh understand the purpose of it it really is coming down to designing for as many people as possible with like as many diverse needs as possible so really fine to design for particular use cases of of a population and how can we broaden that out to idle to other potential use cases with maybe people who maybe do not have the same type of disability or a different type of um of impairment and something else too that is really like potent inside the design community now is like building in the co-design process into inclusive design so like when we are like building out our data collection tools who are the people we are leaving out of our samples that we are talking about and doesn't make them get cruel this is why we left them out and this is how we hope to maybe connect with them in the future um and not just designing and coming back and forth like i said really designing together so like one of the things that like you hear why is um nothing about us without us so really focusing on pulling in the user into the resource experience um as soon as possible so you can by have a better under have a better or have a better understanding of their particular need when it comes to utilizing whatever service or product you are and also really fun to spread this knowledge throughout the organization of different types of digital products and different types of resources that you may be working with as well as product analysts and men and and managers too so like what exactly is the first principle is basically is provide a comfortable experience so like really so really focusing on and making sure that everyone have the ability to interact with whatever the user and the user interfaces that you are basically designing and collecting data for so like if you are building up a survey making sure that like whatever tool you are using to build up to build that particular survey in is actually accessible to people who may be utilizing screen needles so they can better uh so they can better um understand what exactly the survey is is basically asking and the data that you want to collect so and also like testing out with populations um what is not just people with like very um severe disabilities it could be populations from different types of economical back background as well as coastal um backgrounds as well so fine to pull in as many as as many as those users as possible so they can uh have a better understanding of how of how they are interpreting the um actual content that you are sharing with them will find to correct and then we kind of go into a basic a couple of a couple of these examples i kind of i kind of like testing tests on one already really focusing on like you know if if if the alt text is like readable or whatever your tool is uh making sure there are other like pieces available so if you are like having used those watch the video and then maybe just answer a couple questions making sure that that video actually has like um has has like a closed caption feasible so that may be someone who maybe is like is this like learning a particular way which can still can still i can still interpret what exactly that video is meaning so really fine too i always do more do more do more like good than harm and never father like um let someone feel like they are excluded from utilizing whatever your product or service is so it has to make sure it actually is accessible to a particular demographic uh let's see here yeah and the next one is um basically um consider consider uh a considerable situation so i if someone is is doing a survey on the phone and they may be doing it on a bus or in a public transit area or outside really thinking about like how how does that like affect their answers and do you have like um like very accessible like targets for that like mobile device so they can actually hit it and understand it as well and making sure that like grill and things are inconsiderate of that especially when you are like providing like a lot of like open text questions and things of that nature and making sure that the cuddles is actually accessible as well is another is another really big thing so like looking for the um making sure there's a proper cuddle contrast because like a very large percentage of the population is um some form of colorblind so really fun to see how can i interpret um the actual the actual data collection experience as well and also too like this is really fun to help people understand that maybe this is their first time utilizing this type of interface so like there are various um digital skills uh literacy levels that you do have to improve incorporate into your design process and data collection efforts to really think about why you know what if someone had never used the mouse before how do they interact with that what if they can't use the mouse because maybe they have like a physical impairment so i really find to think about that as well as inside the smartphone example too so like making sure that you have like keyboard navigation play and the ability to switch back and forth is really important when you are like really flying to um consider what exactly is the situation that the individual you are actually designing for to collect data from and then and the third principle is always be consistent so basically you basically you want to for you want to apply um things that the user have already maybe known or seen inside of any type of data collects an effort so like except for you may be testing out a new a new like word or a new like button you want to test out maybe you should want some user testing some a b testing look at your analytics and try to stick to those consistent patterns i don't think there's nothing wrong with testing things but if you're just changing things because you think it might be more visibly appealing you might be um leaving a very hard segment of users who maybe cannot even see that visual appealing content so really try to understand like what exactly um you are doing with your interfaces and how well there's basic design funds and patterns that people are understanding about on the internet that could really you could um to meet to meet to meet like various users who have like various uh various uh disabilities not disability but various accessibility levels when it comes to digital technology and utilizing technology as well so really fine to figure out where this consistent power is that you can utilize across your information architecture on your on your on your landing page or data collection tool so you can better have a heavier understanding of how these users navigate that so you don't have to put like more cognitive training on someone who maybe um haven't seen this design pattern before um i always give and always give control so i think giving control it kind of like ensures that that the human being who you are who you are you are who you who you are collecting this data from has a very good uh uh accurate understanding of what they are consenting to so like example of this is like i've got the opportunity to do a lot of research focusing on like different types of sms texting and you have to get user consent at the very first message where you cannot like continue that so like it's very similar focus groups and things like that really fine to make sure that the person you're speaking to understand um you know they can stop this at any moment and give them control to navigate and to also self-identify as they kind of go through the experience as well so like being able to scroll i think is really important to users when it comes to navigation and even when it comes to completing surveys as well and also thinking about the hierarchy if you are using any type of vlog listings like what exactly are the are the populations you are putting at the top of the list and what are the power dynamics that has to go with someone has to score the bottle so like maybe you want to like focus more on randomizing that feasil so like when you do get that data that might not be something that you have to take into your considerations of slang results and also like and also like allowing people to zoom in and out and type of any type of data collection tool if it's available i think it's super helpful so giving people the opportunity to maybe be somewhat visibly imperial to zoom in and to zoom in and out of the actual experience that they can better await and understand um what exactly they are trying to do and the next one is uh awful choice so i always being consistent in offering people multiple ways to do things different types of workarounds and tasks that they can they can get the most out of their customized experiences so like humans like i said before we are all very different we all come from a various coastals and various places around the world so there are like coastal norms as well as itself as well as economic and and also and and also social behaviors that we have to consider when we are um giving someone you know accident and making sure that some people might not have the same cognitive abilities as other individuals so really trying to take that into consideration when you are designing these tools and doing and doing any type of research is like why the test not being completed so like an example of this is is it is it not being completed because uh maybe they're on this website so on because they cannot leave the page maybe there's a pop-up there and if you're on a screen needle you cannot access the actual exit button so you're running like what we call like a flat so you can't even navigate so like you can share those web analytical data and put them inside those insights really try to break them down from like an accessibility point of view um always looking at the layouts um making sure that making sure you have like a actual proper good things of that nation like i said before that like warzone um images are actually sized appropriately and if you can add those alt tags to actually describe what that image is most of the time if you cannot do that um then might just make sure it's not an image that has to convey any type of any type of information and i'm also always fine to make sure that there is accessible alternative when presenting any type of data so any type of feedback loops you'll find to close makes make sure those multiple ways that users can actually uh understand that and actually opt into that processes like i said too it's it's very similar it comes to screens too so making sure that they do have the upper the the opportunity to um self-identify whatever that might be from not just a list that you maybe want to so always probably add those others to so giving users choice uh and prioritizing content so like making sure that like you have accrual information or architecture is something that i found to be very important so you can actually navigate through tasks and focus all those best especially if you are designing for any type of data collection effort for users who may be or utilizing a particular screen reader so really being able to make to make sure that the hierarchy and the tasks makes a lot of sense and it paid and it takes one tasks with the actual pieces that you are like designing for and the same exact thing if you are if you are basically collecting any type of follow-up data so any phone numbers or emails or things like that making sure that those fill that those forms are properly tagged so like if a user who are utilizing a um swing legal they can actually have access to that information and know what they're tagging in and if you can't be like as be like as specific as possible especially when there are any types of error messages that may occur inside the content so really really bringing the user out of the experience try to always communicate with where they are for it so they can have so they can have the ability to prioritize the content that they want to consume and understand what is the most important and the very last one number seven is um adding value so i always finally think about communicating to the user why exactly do we as researchers find this information help help helpful and how do we plan to utilize that to show back with them to show them that we have provided some type of value it shouldn't just be a give and take relationship i think it's to be a waiting ship that is built upon caring and empathy and really fun to focus on the connection of how this content that we are utilizing and showing out or being used to help save the war we also and we also can like do that with like a number of different ways and different types of integration data and data and data visualization tools to show that information back our users after we have collected it as long as it isn't like something that's super private and like make sure it's always it always is it always is consolidated information and focusing on how how how absolutely easy is it to complete the tasks that we want people to complete and focus on so that we can have a better uh experience that's accessible to everyone so it's always fun to add the value and the next slide here is this a couple of resources you can kind of check out more a couple of favorite plugins as well as some resources on accessibility and some some more some more readings about things i've cited inside the presentation so yeah if there's any questions or anything i would just love to be able to share it with you thank you alrighty uh let's take a look at those questions we have a comment from tommy saying i would love to get these resources and sources links jamal where can they have where can they access these yes this is inside of a figma file i can actually show let me see if i can show the file for you guys there you go and i want to be wrong yeah okay let me see all right cool yeah so this is you can just copy that link and you can give access to the whole presentation the deck um as well as the links that you can dig deeper into i have those wings left left one is just like um the uh microsoft the microsoft accessibility toolkit as long as as well as on the inclusion design toolkit as well as i believe uh ibm by apple accessibility for always one of those resources as well so yeah there's a lot of really cool resources also i often say as far as like wc fooly on wicket um i think is 2.1 right now in the u.s standards about like accessibility and websites so yeah all right and so for anybody who wants to access those the the link is currently in chat and i will see we might be able to share that on our twitter i will double check if you do that um so stay tuned keep an eye out on our twitter if you guys want to access that link and after this meeting is closed um i don't see any oh there's one question just popped up right from megan what's the best software slash language slash packages that make it easy to enable accessible environments any advice on market research questionnaires specifically where customers are providing their opinions oh that's a really good question um i mean i think there's a lot of really good um research as far as like accessible data collection tools so like i know that i'm surveymonkey puts out a report you can look at any of the survey collection tools uh accessibility features built inside any type of courseworks platform as well so like there's a lot of good ways to do it i think it's mainly just making sure like when you are um building up your data collection tool that you want to make sure it is accessible to people who maybe are on a screen needle so like making sure that like it makes sense hierarchy and focus and using as plain language as possible is just a good practice too i know like i think like the edwards the evidence great leading level of people inside of america that's like what i'm based out of is i believe it's like seventh or eighth grade so i really find them not like exceeding anything that's too high based off of your particular population so i think that's like a really good starting point there's a number of tools and stuff like that you can even see some of those that take in the resources when you get to like um the ibm toolkit and the microsoft one as well i would be i could reference some really better things that i could probably do off the top of my head [Music] then we got another one from james i started using a phrase in the hashtag hashtag digitalempathy in part to refer to this important topic yeah i've never heard of the hashtag before but i'm definitely gonna start utilizing it like i definitely think like if you want to be an advocate inside this space like you do as a hashtag um sharing out knowledge whenever you can and just making sure like when you are doing your research if it is a product or a service that maybe a individual with like a different type of uh impairment can use that you advocate for them and just ask them have we done any testing with users that are blind or users that maybe have any type of cognitive issues so this will advocate for that inside of any type of research that you're doing i think it's the really great yeah but there's a whole bunch of really cool um hashtags too i think that'll be really cool too um let me know if you guys can hit me up on linkedin you can show me the hashtags you utilize about about this and maybe we can make like a figma board or something to display them all or something like that to shop people but yeah that sounds like a really good one i like that there's no uh empathy [Music] all right and uh where can they find you on linkedin yeah some jamal's a mal uh digital davis and that's pretty much like my main form communication people hit me up with any questions um they can tag they can tag me in anything like that anything they want to show out uh and just follow me i'll definitely like to post content chill stuff out whenever i can but yeah so definitely feel free to definitely connect with me is that a link that you could share in the chat right now yeah give me one second before yeah all right while you do that i'm going to read another comment from megan again okay she follows up with do you have any advice on balance balancing budget and accessibility for tools platforms that businesses have already built what is the one area that you would focus on to have the biggest customer experience that's a big question [Laughter] yeah yeah that's a that's a that's a really big question um i would say if you're inside that situation one of the things i'll probably first start on is just figuring out what are some of the um there's no software that you're using that is accessible and meet whatever standards you want to have versus the ones who aren't and then from there you can start to uh they have these things called uh voluntary accessibility product templates so basically from there start to build out that with your vendors to make sure these are the list of accessibility issues that you guys have to meet to meet your own um internal standards and i think as far as any motivation to make things switch in the move forward i guess that's a really big question um there is a people might talk about it but there's a lot of losses going on inside this space now so uh you can look at the data on that but there's been a number of agencies like i know like i'm domino's guys i think target guys like a lot of companies have been sued for not having accessible experiences so us is like this is us is like the least so this is we can like prevent that in the early phases if we can call these problems out before the products get shipped so yeah that's a that's a that's a way that's a really big question i don't know if i answered at all but uh i gave my best shot i actually have um a tag along question to that how would you you in that your it might be the same thing that you just said but um what advice would you give for somebody who's trying to increase the accessibility for their company but is trying to avoid having to do like a whole rebranding thing say that the branding isn't very accessible at the moment but they don't want to uproot everything yeah that's a really good question um i would say obviously figure out what you can start with and then build like a use case so like i like to really focus now we're getting into like strategies this is one thing i really focus on like small wins so like really fast establish something that i can win quickly at and something that i can use to show senior level stakeholders um this is why we should pivot everything to to more accessibility practices and and i think that can be done like on a numerous ways i'm thinking even just like email campaigns you can definitely do a b test on accessibility email campaign versus a non-accessibility email and then really show that out with your stakeholders and then match that with like because of these things or not not not only are these things that we are stopping people from being able to access our service and products these are also things that we can participate wanting to find financial problems with with like legal actions for not being able to do these things so then from there i would say establish the plan and to figure out who the people inside the organization that want to make that change to other people when you come and say like you had we tested this with screen readers if the email is accessible where the people that say yeah yeah have we done that whoever got to talk to about that and start to work with them and just build that culture up and make it something that's like fun and everyone should be motivated to be like this isn't something that like um separates one human being from another we're talking about the differences but these are differences that we are all going to probably face at some point in our rights if we are lucky enough to aids and to have cognitive decline and things of that nature so your hearing is going to go at some point your visible your visual eyes are going to go so really try to think about that and also the situational aspect of it too so you maybe can have all of your all of your all your attendance and mobile skills now but what happened if you break your arm and now you only have your left hand you don't know how to lose your weapon so if i just pull it in and make it let people know by doing this and investing in this they're going to get um they're going to get more clients they're going to get more uses on the part on digital services because now more people can access it and because those borders or those barriers have been removed so yeah that's a good question too that was like a longer one but uh i don't have to answer everything but i thought i'd give a little more detail on that one yeah and and tied with the budgeting answer i i feel like that's a very solid response yeah yeah buzz is always hard you know and i think it's always going to you don't want to break the bank when it comes to accessibility because you don't want to throw people away you want people to think like oh my accessibility is so expensive so you really will always want to like meet people what you can make sure you're doing a good job at it um and just let them know like you know you might you might put it out now but this will save you in the long run like a lot more money because if you get accessibility you also you don't have to solve that so this is really going to help you now to prevent it so what guys are preventing this message and and the investment to get more clients so yes i think it's a great investment all around awesome let me do another check for more comments all right i'm not seeing any last call for comments if anybody has a final question they want to ask them all here have you ever done any um and just i'm coming up with questions myself uh have you ever do you have any fun um exercises or anything that you've done to try to get in the mindset of somebody with a different disability with a disability that you don't have yeah yeah yeah so i got to do a lot of work with like product teams and one of the things that i usually try to do we do like a design swipe so we ask a couple questions or like a freaking sample or something like that and they can fill it out one thing i always like to just ask them is can they describe some something that oh can they can they basically can they can they describe a time that they forgot to use something and they and it didn't work so like it was they was excluded out of how to design it could be signed into the ordering process could be walking into a store it could be on an airplane well people just basically tell me a time that like you experienced some something and whoever designed that product or service it didn't meet your needs and we kind of share those out and then we share about tell us the time that like you um immediately got to work in a group or on team and you immediately fell apart so you immediately felt like you know like this is like my team you know we just did this we just we just shipped this product we just built this cool research report right this is awesome and what were the things that how did i make on film was the things that did that and then so i'm like that's what happens when you exclude people from utilizing products or services like you take that joy away and now you feel how many people felt before because i went to the website i went to fly to fill out the survey but you know i don't know where i'm at i'm kind of slap i can't navigate back and forth there's no visual clues so i really try to build that empathy up with them and also you know also where people you know hear like real life stories like so if you do have like i have a lot of friends i know like some of my friends their kids maybe have some type of pyramids they may be black or things that are experiences so how does that make them feel um as a parent who maybe can't access the service so the kid couldn't access it so this human has it i think as much as possible um yeah i think that's probably the best work and then from there uh just make sure people fall as all followers are falling like the um the actual plus the active principles and the best practices that they can do to design uh different types of accessible products and services okay you have a lot to say and i really appreciate it thank you thank you thank you i appreciate the opportunity to come and to share this deck with everybody and yeah just to talk i would appreciate it too it's been great we have one more comment so okay before i leave before you log off all right um megan back at it again with um what are the best ways to test a user experience for accessibility oh that's a really good one that's a really great one right now that's awesome so like you can do a usable accessibility test so it's very similar to a usability test uh moderate or unmoderated but except for you testing on maybe anyone you found out or a particular percentage you test on that same percent but focusing from the inclusive ones um a lot of these testers that i've done they have been with users that are either severely blind or visibly imperiled um the reason for that is because when you are designing any type of digital tool if you design for focusing on a blind user you can cast almost up to 80 of accessibility problems with that because that user overlaps with so many adaptive technologies that they have to use to interact with the content because they aren't visually able to so they also they are obviously all relying on like a listening device or any types of screen wheels apples saws um so they can like content as well as well as navigating the cues because they can't see it they don't see what they're cooking so i really find to incorporate any type of user testing with that and from there i would say this is follow um best practices i will only test it like one by using be like hey i found these blind problems you don't know that individuals like different types of levels so then pull in at least like at least based off of your study i would say seven to eight people at least to do that test with you know this is like best quad quad quad best qual best quality of data practices and then from there you can start to build the accessibility reports and sell those out and you do have to maybe walk up through a little bit more so if you already if you are doing a moderate study i would say start with those there are though and there are also like a number of on platforms that you can get that have built-in accessibility panels so if you are running um unmodified user testing so let's say you're using any type of remote user testing tool then you can send them that link and they already have a panel of established users that are either brand or um or maybe have a hearing deficiency basically i want you to specify for and you pay those users to go through those those are flying teslas or you can recruit your own pools so like those are like some of the ways that um i've done it but yeah i mean it's very similar to basic user testing you look at tasks you're going to have to do it and you just focus on the adapter the adaptive technology or the assistive technology that they are utilizing to do the test so if if they are utilizing am screen leader you still record the session but you probably need a note taker because like a lot of a lot of users who do utilize like um voiceover on apple or zos they listen to these uh voice leaders at like very high spaces like super high so you probably won't understand that you just try to listen to them like remote wifi like a user assessment so make sure you have no takers and ask them to turn them down but other than that it's usually pretty similar to um to uh to any other user testing that you built out you build out your slip you build a population and your questions and whatever methods you want to collect as far as test analysis and on the tail end over question she asked are there any specialty softwares that you know of that do screen reading or show contrast or um yeah levels that you would yeah yeah so inside that deck i show one of the resources window is a is a thing of my console cycle so like inside the accessibility toolkit so you can use that to set any type of contrast um so that's like one really i think great tool um if you have if you have you have an apple device you already have one of the best like built-in screen needles um inside the apple voice so you can kind of like utilize that you i would say probably practice your tabbing so like that's like the key you push to go through the content of your information hierarchy um so i think that one if you are using pcs you can also utilize all sauce is a little bit more expensive but you can still get that on there and they're all and also are like external plug-ins that you can download if you are utilizing um uh like um any type of google browsers or any type of google chrome files so that you can download like voiceover or things like that so like you can go through and it will read the content on the website to do the other types of testing and tabbings too so yeah this is a number of tools so some inside of the link inside the resources tab you can definitely check out and megan says thanks jamal for all the great answers i love all thank you megan for giving me the opportunity to share all right this has been awesome all right doing one last clean through don't see anything in here all right and again for everyone listening there there is a link in chat to access those tools that he was just talking about i think that might be it awesome thank you everybody see you bye
