Joel Barr, a senior UX researcher with seven years of experience in healthcare and home improvement retail, shares his personal experience losing his contract role at Lowe's Home Improvement on March 13, 2020, amid the early COVID-19 lockdowns. Drawing on his own job search and a LinkedIn following he built through transparent, empathy-driven posts, Joel offers practical advice on staying productive during unemployment, building a portfolio, and finding opportunities as both a new and experienced researcher. The session is conversational and Q&A-heavy, with Joel answering audience questions in real time.
Key Takeaways
- Give yourself grace during a job search. No large enterprise will hire you the day you apply. Build in rest, keep a schedule, and step away from the desk when needed.
- Emphasize team work in your portfolio and cover materials. Hiring managers at large enterprises ask three questions: do you know your stuff, will you fit the culture, and will you contribute to the team? Solo projects do not answer all three.
- Bootcamp graduates should form small cross-functional teams, take on volunteer or nonprofit projects, and document artifacts including actual video of themselves conducting interviews and usability tests.
- Mentorship is one of the most effective job search tools available. Aim for up to four mentors, check in with one per week, and understand that mentors often hear about openings before a job description is ever posted.
- Telehealth and companies building remote-work tools are likely to see the strongest UX hiring demand coming out of COVID-19, because both sectors require user-centered design to function at scale.
- The single most important researcher skill, regardless of the tools available, is empathy combined with the discipline to stay silent and let users fill the space. That cannot be replaced by any platform or camera technology.
Questions & Answers
- How do you think research will go forward without face-to-face interaction?
- Face-to-face research will return. No camera yet replicates the full environmental awareness you have in person. In the near term, remote research will dominate, and researchers should use this time to develop remote facilitation skills, including lighting and framing. Joel also sees an opportunity for companies to send participants a phone stand and ring light to improve remote session quality.
- What is the best technology to use for UX research?
- Your brain. Tools come and go. The core capabilities that matter are empathy and the ability to draw out insights through conversation. Those do not change regardless of the platform.
- What kind of company will you look for now that you have gone through this experience?
- Joel said he will continue targeting large enterprises because they have the research budgets to do the work properly. He is open to a startup or smaller company if the conditions are right, but his default is enterprise because he knows the environment and does not want to fund research out of his own pocket.
- What is the best way to encourage close friends and family facing sudden unemployment?
- Listen first. Let them talk about what they are going through without rushing to solutions. Then encourage them to keep moving, keep applying, and resist the pull toward inertia. Remind them this situation is temporary and that UX is still hiring in pockets.
- Do you see opportunities opening up for new UX researchers after COVID-19, and what should they emphasize in their materials?
- Yes. Joel recommended forming a small team of bootcamp peers with different roles, taking on real projects with small businesses or nonprofits, and leading with team-based work in all application materials. Hiring managers want to see that you can collaborate, not just that you can work alone.
- What advice do you have for early-career researchers on how to show value and retain their jobs?
- Build artifacts: research proposals, short presentation decks, and especially video of yourself conducting interviews and usability tests. Hiring managers and stakeholders want to see how you facilitate a conversation. Also, embrace silence during sessions. Letting a pause sit often produces the most valuable insights.
- Is there any ritual you do before submitting applications or going into interviews?
- Joel listens to music while filling out applications and writing cover letters. For interviews he goes in fairly cold, deliberately avoiding too much preparation so that preconceived expectations do not bias his performance. He prepared his presentation deck only three days before and did not revise it, wanting the focus to be on the audience rather than the slides.
- Do you change your resume and cover letter for every job you apply to?
- No on the resume. Maintaining too many versions can come across as dishonest. Cover letters are worth having if required, but if they are not required, spend that time sending out more applications instead.
- Are informational interviews still effective, and are people willing to do them?
- Yes. Joel ties this directly to mentorship. He recommends new researchers seek out up to four mentors, rotate check-ins weekly, and treat those conversations as both a learning tool and a network-building strategy. Mentors often know about openings before anyone in HR has written a job description.
- What are your thoughts on translating TV audience analytics skills into UX research?
- The skills translate well into a quantitative research track. The main adjustment is changing perspective: instead of working from large aggregate data down to the individual, practice starting with one user and extrapolating outward. The core analytical capability is already there.
Session Notes
Background: How the #Coated19 Journey Started
Joel Barr spent several years as a senior UX researcher, most recently leading research teams at Lowe's Home Improvement after building a qualitative research capability at UnitedHealth Group. In October 2019 he watched UnitedHealth conduct a large round of layoffs affecting roughly 30 percent of its UX workforce. When it happened again in early 2020, he wrote a LinkedIn post offering to help those laid off, which reached around 100,000 views.
On Friday, March 13, 2020, during a full moon and in the early days of the COVID-19 outbreak, his own contract at Lowe's was cut short. He returned to Colorado with limited savings. Shortly after, the state entered quarantine. That sequence of events was the direct prompt for the LinkedIn series he calls the #Coated19 journey, a transparent, ongoing account of what it looks like to search for work in a sudden and severe economic downturn.
I really wanted to give people a sense of the journey and give people hope at the same time. I think there's a great deal of power in empathy.
What Joel Has Learned from the LinkedIn Posts
- People read personal, transparent posts. Joel receives daily letters from readers who say the posts help them get through quarantine, especially those who have never worked from home before.
- Almost every letter also includes a request for a portfolio or resume review. Joel responds to each one personally.
- Ghosting happens at every career level. The difference, Joel says, is that he will actively call it out when it happens to him, because he believes there is no excuse for it.
- When he calls out a company for poor practices, he also tries to give them grace, recognizing that recruiters and hiring managers are under genuine pressure.
Practical Tips for Managing Unemployment Right Now
- Keep a schedule as best you can. The structure matters even if the hours shift to match your natural rhythm.
- Give yourself grace. No large enterprise will move quickly enough for you to get a job the day you apply.
- Get outside and move. Physical activity has a measurable effect on mental state during extended periods of isolation.
- Leave work at your desk. When your office is 30 feet from your bedroom, you have to make a deliberate choice not to carry a bad day into your home life.
- Keep churning. Send out applications consistently rather than spending all your time perfecting any single one.
The Future of Face-to-Face UX Research
Joel does not believe in-person research will disappear. No camera yet replicates the 360-degree environmental awareness you have when sitting across from a participant. In the near term, he expects remote research to dominate and sees an opportunity for companies that facilitate remote research well. He also floated a practical workaround: companies sending participants a phone stand and ring light so that moderated tests can be conducted with better video quality and framing. Regardless of modality, he argued the core skills are empathy, conversational technique, and the ability to draw out insights. Those do not change.
Advice for Early-Career and Bootcamp Researchers
Joel was direct about the structural challenge facing new researchers: large enterprises almost always choose a specialist who can step into a project immediately over a junior hire who needs training, even though junior researchers are hungry, capable, and less expensive. He does not think this is fair, but he thinks there is a path around it.
- Form a small cross-functional team with fellow bootcamp graduates. Aim for a researcher, designer, architect, developer, content strategist, and someone who can sell. Different roles matter.
- Take on real projects with small businesses, nonprofits, or COVID-related volunteer work. The output gives you team-based artifacts, which is what hiring managers actually want to see.
- Document everything. Video of yourself conducting interviews and usability tests is more valuable than slide decks alone. Hiring managers want to see how you pace a conversation and use silence.
- Lead with the team story, not a solo narrative. Anyone can work alone. Demonstrating that you can function on a cross-functional team answers all three of the hiring manager's core questions at once.
- Do not complete an entire redesign in two weeks. It signals either that you cut corners or that you do not understand how enterprise work actually moves. A two-week sprint covers one small slice of a design.
Resume and Cover Letter Guidance
- Do not maintain multiple versions of your resume tailored to each job description. Too many versions can come across as dishonest, and the resume still has to hold up in the next role.
- Cover letters are worth having if a company requires them. If a company does not require one, Joel recommends spending that time sending out more applications instead.
- Volume matters. Put as many lines in the water as you can rather than polishing one application endlessly.
- Build artifacts: research proposals, short presentation decks, and recorded sessions. These become the portfolio items that differentiate you in a future role.
Mentorship as a Job Search Strategy
Joel considers mentorship one of the most underused tools available to early-career researchers. He recommends having up to four mentors, rotating check-ins across weeks, and treating those conversations like low-stakes research interviews. Mentors hear about internal openings before HR writes a job description. A strong mentor relationship can mean the difference between being considered and being overlooked entirely. He also encouraged everyone, regardless of experience level, to be a mentor to someone else.
Industries Likely to Hire Most After COVID-19
- Companies building remote-work tools and digital collaboration software. The shift to distributed work requires products to be far more user-centered than legacy on-site tools ever needed to be.
- Telehealth. Joel has been applying heavily in this space and believes the pandemic accelerates a long-term structural shift away from in-person clinical care. Bluetooth-connected peripherals for blood pressure, pulmonary testing, and diabetes monitoring are already available. The design and research work to make those products usable at scale is ongoing.
- Any enterprise accelerating digital transformation. Large companies that resisted remote work for years now have no choice but to build the infrastructure to support it, and that infrastructure needs UX research.
Interview Preparation and Questions to Ask
- Ask early whether the role is on-site or remote, whether relocation is covered, and what the company's record has been in protecting employees during COVID-19.
- Ask about the interview process and how many rounds to expect. Knowing what is coming makes you a more informed and less anxious candidate.
- If the role is remote, ask whether onboarding is also remote or whether you are required to go in for equipment and initial setup.
- Joel's preferred question to close an interview: 'Is there anything you normally hear from a candidate that I haven't addressed?' It prompts the interviewer to surface concerns they might not have raised directly.
- Joel is skeptical of generic behavioral interview questions. He wishes more interviewers would probe the specific mechanics of research, card sorts, usability session pacing, and insight synthesis, because those questions reveal actual capability.
Translating Adjacent Skills into UX Research
For people coming from fields like TV audience analytics, Joel suggested reframing the core skill: instead of working from large aggregate data down to individuals, practice working from one individual user outward to the broader population. The quantitative background maps well to a mixed-methods research role. The adjustment is primarily one of perspective and framing, not fundamental capability.
Transcript
Read the full transcript
hi everyone so we're at the top of the hour Joel I think you're on mute there hi there so my name is Krista Clark everyone I'm one of the senior project managers at accelerant research I hope everyone has enjoyed viewing the presentations today it's about 4 o'clock that means that the agenda has been pretty full but we're ready and excited to keep the content flowing before we jump to our next speaker who's Joel who you see on the screen right now there are a few things that I would just like to ask you to keep in mind the first is that we are at the mercy of technology with that most of us have had to quickly become technology experts it's self-taught which means that we know that patience is truly a virtue if dogs are barking if glitches happen throughout this presentation please just bear with us the majority of us are working from home we're trying to navigate this time of uncertainty in the best way that we can second please be respectful of the other participants be respectful of our presenters of course this means in your comments and in your discussions your questions but for a positive spin on this let's try to think about how if there's a topic or an insight that really speaks to us we find a latest in some kudos so I'm sure our prisoners would really appreciate that and then finally please take advantage of this time to network to engage this virtual conference is proof that even though the in-person option isn't quite available there's still an opportunity for us to connect with one another to share our experiences your expertise I'm sure presenters are more than happy to do so in and outside of this forum and of course we get accelerant are always here to answer your questions and talk to you as well so with that I'm happy to introduce our next speaker Joel Barr is a senior UX researcher with the background in the healthcare industry and home improvement retail he's going to talk today about how Kovac 19 has directly affected him and so Joel with that I want to thank you for your time for your willingness to share your experience with the hashtag coated 19 John hunt thank you so much and with that I'm going to stop sharing my screams so that you can take over thanks Joel well good afternoon good evening if you're on the East Coast good afternoon oh if you're on the West good afternoon evening if you're somewhere in the middle I was asked to do this as a as a documentation of a journey that began some twenty three days ago when I lost my position at Lowe's home improvement as their senior leader senior user experience researcher I am pretty well-versed in all things qualitative research I've got about seven years in the field I'm not a big PowerPoint guy so my powerpoints are particularly short for a purpose because I think that this should be more about you guys than about me because the Internet is filled with experts and and and people who tell you what you should do and because this because they're experts I'm not that kind of guy so I'll do a short presentation and leave hopefully around 40 45 minutes for questions whatever you want to ask but you can doesn't matter what it is about UX researcher the hashtag or what it's like to do what I do on LinkedIn or how do I make my post or any other stuff so let's see if we can get a squid is being shared on here oh it took about to happen okay minimize the thing okay so essentially this this slide originally said what on earth were you thinking because my mom [Music] [Laughter] my mom keeps up with my LinkedIn posts she's one of my biggest fans like my secret fan she doesn't like her comment or anything she just you know watches and then like I'll get it really really quickly it says you need to go back and edit that or or why on earth did you say that so one of the big questions that was one on earth what do you think so I'm sure many of you who keep up with my page who think I'm insane for doing what I do as it turns out so the background on on how the how the hashtag came up or was created just a little bit here in October 19 I came in one day to my job at you know in health group having built there qualitative capability under you know health care and didn't have a job and they've called something like thirty percent the UX force or some some gigantic number of the folks that were in Minnesota said they drove in and what they saw were a steady stream of people at boxes with tears in their eyes it was a hard day and because most of us were remote it was even harder because we didn't have like coworkers that we could commiserate with right like you know shake hands with me like hey it was nice knowing you thanks for working with me instead it was it was really hard day but around around February of this year they did it again United Health Group did and a friend of mine wrote me and said they did it again they did it again and I go and I didn't even have to ask I knew exactly what she was talking about so I wrote up posting garnered a hundred thousand views if you're if you get done if you got laid off by you not he'll come find me we'll find jobs together now at the time I was working for Lowe's home improvement leading the research teams but I felt a good amount of solidarity to those folks because I've been in their position before and so knew what it was like to to work from home and have your heart ripped out of your chest by somebody who didn't even know ya so in Moore on march 13th on a full moon on Friday the 13th on a full moon in the middle of a coronavirus was cut my contract short sent me home I moved there on my own dime I had virtually no money to my name I had a little bit in savings but it was unexpected so I I went home and danced and then as soon as I did the governor quarantined the whole state of Colorado for a while so there's the original post I wrote this like I'd say the day after Lowe's kept me essentially I wanted to provide transparency on my own journey because looking for work especially in a crap economy and make no mistake this is the single quickest and largest recession in this country's history you go all the way back to 1887 and the great cattle pandemic you know the die-off that caused that market crash all the way up to this present day you know there were signs early on that something was amiss this one came on all too suddenly so I really wanted to like give people a sense of the journey and give people hope at the same time if I could I think there's a great deal of power and empathy and I speak about this both for me use a research standpoint and from a humanity standpoint you know we live in a in a time where where individuality is so is emphasized so much that I think everything gets kind of thrown by the wayside so I really do try to convey that empathy through my postings and that we are just alone in this we are all together that indeed from the most junior research associate all the way up to the most senior you know we're all in this together and and the same things that happen to junior researchers in terms of recruiting and in terms of looking for work being ghosted being ghosted happens to me just as much as it does to them the only difference is is that I'll actively call people out that give us me because I think there's an excuse for it so what am i learned so far people actually read my stuff including my mom as it turns out which was surprising when it happened I'm very I'm very pleased actually that people read and I get letters every day of people that thanked me from what I write and that somehow it's helping them get through quarantine a little easier because if you've never done this before you never work from home if you've never you know been stranded kind of in your own little island it can be a really hard thing so I'm very appreciative of folks that we're having letters and say you know thank you for for doing what it is you're doing and then normally in the exact same letter and nearly in the same paragraph they'll say can you can you look at my portfolio and or resume or whatever it is and my answer is always yes because they read my stuff but I ultimately work for them and oh and I might mention my dogs might make a cameo in this little in this shows though just their Barker's so I'm very sorry they're adorable though maybe we'll get Zoey up here and she'll sing for us anyway I try to make it a point when I do call somebody out or a company out for crappy business practices or crappy recruiting practices then I give them grace because I know they're working just as hard as I am I don't think I'm some kind of self like I really try not to play the prima donna card that much I really do think that people are working just as hard as I can and sometimes you know sometimes it really isn't their fault sometimes it's the engine for which the application happens to be in and then there are times when it's just over stupidity I will give you one example without naming a name there happens to be a betting company when you go on on their application in order to move forward in the application process you have to put your social security number because I know kind of too much about tech and I know that every every system is very vulnerable and the idea that I'm my social security number on a job application on a potentially unsecured server is like so I called them out on my page you know I don't I still don't know if they've changed it - oh no wonder they're having trouble finding folks right and then finally just kind of next steps things that I do that might help you keep in mind no expert here I'm just as employed as a lot of new folks that are watching so don't take my my pontification don't think because I hold the presenters chair that any of this is going to be applicable to you because you have your own system and you know it's like the law of interdependent arising you go about it your own way and your way is is absolutely correct your your truth is your truth and that's something I very much believe but some things that help me keep a schedule as best as you can I know that when you in this environment that it's very easy to stay up till like 4 o'clock in the morning then get up at noon right and that's ok if that's you know if you're more of an evening or an afternoon type of person you like to fill out stuff in the evening or power to you keep keep plugging along probably the biggest thing in that whole list there's give yourself grace you're not going to find a job tomorrow nobody no enterprise no large one anyway is going to are you the minute you put your your application into your resume so give yourself some grades breathe a little bit you know push away from your desk don't go do something else you know go walk and I don't know where must y'all live but I live in a gorgeous part of Colorado that allows for a lot of getting out and walking and moving around and kind of I tell you what it helps me immensely to get out and get the blood moving it does why for my mental mental state as well so that's about it really I'm happy to answer any questions that you might have and you can ask me anything actually so thanks thanks Bill it looks like they do have a few questions that have come through awesome fire when ready the first one is from Erika she would like to know how you think research will go forward without face to face so I don't think at all I don't think there's there's always going to be face to face there always will be it may not happen now right like it's not a it's not a Now thing but I think eventually I think eventually we have to return to it because they have yet to they have yet to create a camera that it does you know 360 degrees the same way they that they give you when you like when you're in front of somebody I think initially with the virus and everything like that that that indeed will have to do a lot more remote and that's that's great is I mean if you're a researcher then you know you're kind of well versed in both schools right or hopefully you are and if you're not then you know use this time to learn right learn learn learn a little lighting know what oh wow you know filmmaking and that sort of thing I actually see a world world honest that's okay but I see a way that we could do it to where a company sends like a well I don't know what you'd call like it's not a tripod necessarily but it's like a stand has a good good Oh ring light on it or a good eye light right you put your phone on it and record like I'm moderated or moderated test from that so that you get kind of the the full immersion idea I also think that there are a lot of really good companies out there that do remote work really well or facilitate it really well but I think of kind of waiting for this moment to come along [Laughter] and I think that they've they're going to do very well really and I think we should use them at every every at every turn if we can another question from Erica is what is the best technology to use for UX research your brain short reporting you know tools will come ago you know third tomorrow they could come out with a camera that does the exact same thing that your eyes do and that the depth of me and the ability to view body language and that sort of thing through a screen that camera could come out tomorrow in high-definition that be just like if you were sitting I don't know but I think that the the core things of researchers that really matter are the ability to use empathy and to use to use your brain to tease out insights that you might otherwise not have gotten if you just you know throw in a program in front of somebody and said what do you think which which before you had to research was kind of how it went right so I think I think the basics aren't always going to be there so empathy in and using a bride and knowing how to engage somebody in a conversation that that has to do around a product or design that that and not on them themselves they are they are our our currency our users are our currency they there are will be we trade on you talked a lot about your experience with the job hunt um Erica also wants to know what kind of company you will look for now that you've gone through this experience I still have large enterprises and part of that and and I know I have such a sellout I really am but I love you know for a long time I freelanced for a lot of small businesses and nonprofits and folks that couldn't pay me to do and I loved and I had to do a lot of research out of my own pocket you know gift cards and that sort of thing to entice people to come sit with me and you know come look at this you know this nonprofit page and application on whatever I really love that I can do research and have a budget to do it and even if that means that things don't get done nearly as quickly as I like I like the idea of never having to worry about budgeting for to for to do user research and large enterprises always have that giant budget to do that sort of thing so to me it just it's just like the perfect thing so the short answer is very large enterprises will probably you I am Who I am now that's not to say that if a start-up comes and says we've got you know billion dollars that's research and we want you to do it a game on but at work you know there could be a small company who wants to make me a vice president who user research you know I'll take that too but generally speaking I'll probably shoot for a large enterprise again because I know that I know the game we're getting a few more questions come through a man that would like to know what is the best way to encourage close friends and family who are facing sudden unemployment I mean first I do whatever good user researcher does and that's Alyssa I these talks are so strange for me because I'm so used to doing my job being quiet and listening to other people's listen to other if you think Thaksin for me to talk it's just like you really wanted to know the biggest thing is listen listen to them and listen to their gripes listen to their stories about their offices and the quirky people they work with and encourage them to just keep churning keep plugging along you never know you know especially if you're in tech you know UX is still hiring up Apple has a bunch of human factors jobs out there that I applied for last night so and you know they could call the day I don't know my phone's been silent so probably not but you never know right keep churning just encourage them to keep churning it's so easy to get that couch lock thing you know or you just plop on the couch and you know surf tick-tock all day now that I know how that is or anything right let me so just keep them keep them keep their keep their heads up keep the chins out it it's this thing is temporary as sure as I'm sitting here this in a few months we're not even gonna be we're all gonna be you know it'll probably be mobile lobby back it's just a matter of having an industry adjust at the time and and some of this is a kind of one of those adapter die moments where Enterprise large enterprise anyway has to adapt to history right we're history in the making okay there are a lot of enterprises out there who for many many years despite [Music] a predilection I guess you could say with people being on site like right there now have to come up with some kind of plan to have everybody work remotely now great thing about working for you you know I had a Delft group was that like something like 60% of their workforce are scattered around the country so I had a good year here and three months or whatever it was where I was completely remote I built the qualitative capability for UHD where do you see me sitting this is my office and and so that it's going to take a lot of getting used to though so if you've been on site your entire career being remotes gonna is gonna mess with you a little bit one because your your office your workplace is like 30 feet from your bedroom if you live in an apartment it's if you have a bad day you you literally can't you have to literally leave it at your desk and not carry it in your family because your family doesn't deserve that hire you know so that that's a hard thing to get used to and in the beginning of my UHC time there were nights where I'd ever like a really tough day and and my my partner's you know the dogs and everything like that would which you know you know learn how to leave it hang your desk and just keep a schedule yeah no problem um everyone is loving all of the advice that you're giving we're getting a lot of comments and questions the next question is about how to let's see does with so many people in UX entering the industry most of them newbies do you see opportunities opening up after kovin to accommodate the vast majority of them and if so what should they do to emphasize their resumés their cover letters what should they say to grab attention the vast majority of them that's a great question [Music] yes there's opportunity I got a letter today actually from a from a gentleman who I did a portfolio and resume review for who was asking about junior designers and junior researchers because he's gotten hired you know as principal and now he wants to hire new folks so yes there's opportunity you probably won't find it on LinkedIn job boards because a hiring manager has a very limited amount of time to view 35,000 emails with resumes and portfolios everybody saying I can do what you need me to do it's a tough thing to do and hiring managers also are put in this terrible position and this is especially true for enterprise you know those hiring managers were newbies themselves at one point or another whether they want to tell you they were Donna and they just liked you and if you're new [Music] they were one of the 35,000 thirty-five hundred applicants - who were absolutely sure that that they could do it what you can do and so they're they're there they have this terrible dilemma do you do you pause your projects and hire a bunch of new folks noobs as or where newbies train them up to them the way you want them right knowing that you're gonna pay them less because they're new but you'll have a wider workforce right who are very hungry and really want to get to work or do you hire a specialist you can come in and take that project out of flight right and and get right after it and it's been my experience and this could be different from everybody but it's been my experience that enterprise will always pick the specialist over the noob and that's not fair I'm not gonna lie to you it's just it's not fair I think for folks that are coming out of boot camp probably one of the best thing you can do when this is especially true if you're unemployed you know businesses right now have such a shoestring budget to present products that they were hoping to present prior to this whole shenanigan getting started so get some friends that you went to boot camp with make sure that you all have different roles so get a researcher designer an architect somebody who code very important maybe somebody on the back end content strategist and hopefully somebody who can sell really well and go to small businesses and go to medium-sized businesses nonprofits and the like and then jump in and and you research or do a projects around kovat right because there's tons of volunteer opportunities out there now where you could jump in with both feet work as a team you know hiring managers have like three big questions when they when you when they get your application one is do you know your stuff right because nobody wants to hire somebody doesn't know anything are you gonna be a good culture fit right you don't want to hire somebody who can't work on the team and then third are you gonna make a contribution in the overall team in presenting your resume and cover letter or portfolio or whatever that is make sure you you look sound at feel like you've done team work for a while right anyone can be an individual don't do the I'm a solo mercenary us designer or I do UX research alone I'm I am the darkness I am the night don't don't be bad be the action be beating the team right I am a researcher who was on a team of six boot campers who who banded together with a holy mission and to present user friendly and user centered design Stanford I don't know what that looks like but get a team together on your own go work that way and I I promise you'll have more success when you go to you know go to a Lowe's or go to UHC or go to Home Depot or whoever else or Dillard's or Macy's JCPenney and say you know sorry I'm a UX researcher I'd like to be part of your team my team is great I just want to work I believe in your mission I believe in your in your users I want to go work for you and I think that that's hugely helpful so often I see new newbie you Xers who do these projects on their own that take two weeks right and then Enterprise if you get an entire redesign done in two weeks either you cheated or or you really want to work yourself out of a job because nothing takes two weeks no you know a sprint takes two weeks but that's for like one little tiny thing of an entire design and I get noobs that have done entire designs in two weeks so don't don't don't let the newbie thing dissuade you don't it's great that you're new it's awesome that you're hungry there you're not a one of us that will hold these chairs in 20 years they're gonna have to be taken over by somebody in your head so get out there with your team emphasize team and go to work and I'm telling you you'll sit here in a very short order that was really great advice Joel and we've gotten a few questions about the approach that those who are graduating from MMR programs should take as they're trying to navigate the job hunt advice for those who are boot campers still struggling to secure that first job so I believe your responses covered those questions and I'm sure that that is some great advice that they'll take to heart and use and consider moving forward we do have those announcement I answer every single one of them personally everyone you're nice enough to write man I make damn sure that I'm nice enough to write back a personalized response it's gonna scroll through and make sure that you've got all of our our questions another one kind of related to the topic that you just went through but advice for early career researchers on how to show value early on to retain their jobs make sure you have a lot of artifacts stored that you've done yourself so and one thing one thing I love to see in researchers portfolios is actual footage of them doing interviews and usability testing and kind of so I get a sense of how they pace a conversation how they have a conversation around research or a product and around usability I think one thing I really look for is silence I think one of the greatest gifts we can give our users is not talking because the human condition is such that if there's a pregnant pause your user will generally try to fill it with sound and out of that you get really interesting insights that you might not have otherwise gotten if you would if you tried to jump back into the conversation so I would today make sure you have artifacts research proposals five slide decks I'm a big fan of five slide decks just guys obviously because I think that it lends more time for discussion and more time to to have open questions without somebody sitting at the front of the room telling you what you have what you should think or what your users think you should think I'm a big fan of of open discussions around with stakeholders and and and other concerned design teams around what users say rather than you know killing them with 40 page of 40 slide right I saw one the other day that was 83 slides and I'm like Jesus well I'm never gonna read that I don't know what you know come on you put me on here so you know artifacts are big make sure that you have your artifacts and then if your job does and then you can use a perfect match to catapult yourself in your next role was actually that was the last question that I see in the Q&A and a chat but I actually have a personal question so just out of fun is there any ritual that you do before you go in for interviews or even before you hit submit on your application I know some people like to listen to music to pump themselves up get their spirits up some might read articles or review the company's mission statement just to reiterate and emphasize the values that that company holds what do you do well so I do a lot on a suit I send out tons and tons of resumes so I don't really do a lot of a lot of background on the company unless they want to talk to me specifically like I know for interviews and that sort of thing I then I look into the company they're interested in me perhaps I should probably show some some basis basis industry interest in them as well I listen to a lot of music when I'm working I it's generally loud and it's generally I listen a lot of music when I'm filling out applications when I'm sending out resumes when I'm writing cover letters but as far as ritual goes before interviews and all that I really don't I get them fairly cold because I never want to I think expectations if you have preconceived acts expectations as you're going into an interview that can bias the way that you perform so I do them fairly cold just like this like I I wrote this deck like like three days ago and I didn't really I didn't really revise it at all because I didn't want the emphasis to be on the deck and more about the folks who are watching because they're presumably in the same boat than I am so I want to do to me about them and not in a house of pretty little Powerball thanks while we were talking another Gustin came in do you change your resume and cover letter for every job you applied to resume no because I think that I think you get too many resume versions out there it starts making people look a little dishonest I moved much rather have somebody tell me they don't know something but have a willingness to learn it then somebody who reads a job description and then like crafts the resume around what that job description says just me because eventually you'll you'll have to you'll have to hit to use that resume for something else and maybe it doesn't cover everything that you wanted it to cover letters it's been my experience that by and large not a lot of people read them so and and I know for some companies like Google they don't even require that you have one do I think it's a good practice sure I mean but I mean I think they're good to have if a company requires them if they don't don't put them in I I think I think the best use of your time is to put out as many lines in the water as you can if you want to catch a fish rather than sitting there and you know with a paring knife and and like doing Cartesian you know big cuts I mean if I'm a fish I'm gonna jump at the tasty is morsel I can find not the prettiest looking one I think that's just humanity I think that's just human nature you know so okay what's next I know 20 minutes folks come on on your resume under your name you say he slash him what does that mean I find it very interesting Thanks under my resume I do that's what this comment says huh I don't know I didn't know that I put a pronoun a pronoun preference under my under my resume that's why not to go look at that I don't think I do actually but I it's about gender preference gender identity it is a very interesting time for which we live in I think I think that if you have preferences around gender then you have the right to call them out as you as you desire to be known as I don't really know if you want to ask a follow up on please answer it but I think it's pretty another question comes from Doug he'd like to know what you think about informational interviews are people still willing to do those I found they worked in the past but not sure about now informational interviews I'm not sure what that is anymore I know lately here the the trend I've noticed is that people are starting to shy more towards behavioral interviews like tell me about a time when whatever that is I think sometimes I think that the questions are are not relevant like I can say almost anything as long as I keep it within like I'm 30 seconds to a minute I really do think I don't even think they listen to me anymore like [Laughter] tell me about a time you had a hard time with the co-worker well you know Bob I took them out back you know come on like who does that the their canned answers their their softball questions they're not they don't tell me anything about a candidate I don't think they necessarily tell an employer anything about PE but I think there just can't softball questions too to fill the hour I really wish that somebody would get into if they were really interested in hiring a user researcher I wish they would get into the intricacies of how to gain insights and you know all the variations of card sorts and you know card sorts or like magician are like courts - magician magicians if you're using research everybody's got their own favorite kind their own favorite version like do me a card trick or you know tell me about the last time that you had put a pen and paper in front of a user and had them drawn that's good stuff that's where you get inside but nobody asked you about that they want to know about you no tell me about our time when a project was under budget and under time okay next is which industries do you think will be hiring the most after coded nineteen what area of specificity will they be looking to improve 3m is definitely going to be hiring they mean I think anyone in digital design has to hire no matter what and I think that's true because we're gonna start I think I think we're gonna work from home a heck of a lot more which means we're going to have to have a lot more online tools in order to do our work effectively in the same way that we did it on-site and I think that companies who who procure not procure but manufactured now that's not good where they produce those tools are going to need to make them as user centered in their design and user friendly as possible otherwise we're not going to use them and I think that those companies are going to need user researchers and user designers who know backwards and forwards UX laws and how to do usability testing remotely or in person for that matter so I think those are the industries that are going to come up most now I've been doing a lot of work around applying to telehealth companies because I think and I thought since UnitedHealthcare that there's a trend away from everybody going into the hospital when you get sick I think that you're I think your hospital room your doctor's office is your bedroom I really do I think that in the future were like you have to understand how why health care is so expensive to know that the way the pendulum swings swings back the other way is through telehealth if you really want to make health care affordable do it out of your bedroom don't go don't go to a doctor's office do it your do it in the comfort of your own home there are peripherals out now where you can do blood pressure that that send that information to your doctor there's pulmonary testing there's diabeetus ting it goes over bluetooth that goes over you know hard wired internet connection you know do those don't go to hospital because hospitals are great and I grew up in one my dad is a cardiologist my dad's a cardiologist in Kansas City great guy but his hospital has like a pool in it it's got a great workout room it's got mountains it's got this it's got that it's got a 24-hour cafeteria you know all those things those hospitals have cost them and that cost for those accoutrement right are passed on to the patient you pay for those when you go into the hospital you wanted you really want to make health care cheaper stay home see your doctor from your phone health care changes overnight no it does then hospitals no longer have to be these gigantic Pantheon's of shared disease is let's be honest if you you know go find the guy the folks that think of it is a farce a hoax tell me to go to any Hospital on the five boroughs and take 12 hours of deep breaths without a mask on see how much it says that you know what I mean like hospitals are places where you go get well but they are also places you can get sick so stay home and was your doctor on your phone huge peripherals like that's one of the things that we did at UNC was we're on the innovations team so we were developing ways to you know get a hospital room inside your your your bedroom if you needed one in fact I know for a fact or at least it used to be the Amazon offered an entire hospital room in a box for like three hundred thousand dollars bad monitoring equipment you name it I think that's we're still getting some come through another question is from Amanda she would like to know at the end of the job interview the interviewer always ends with do you have any questions are there any zingers that you can share to help the interviewee stand out Amanda feels like some of those questions are pretty cliche what was the last part she said that some of those questions that people ask seem to be cliche so what singers do you have alright so big one that's going to come up more now than ever is this an on-site roller is this remote and that is something to really drill down on because especially now you know is relocation covered you know what is the record of your workplace in dacovia 19 do you a lot of people on site who have gotten sick you know my former employer who I will not name but you can go look up did not have a go home at Warner when people started getting sick and there were people in my office who were very sick indeed now I avoided them you know like 20 feet it because I you know but that's an important thing to ask and if it is on site then you need to make some kind of calculus as to what risk you're willing to accept you want to ask obviously about what the pathway for interviews are nobody nobody goes through one interview and gets a job and just not a large enterprise in any way now small business that's another thing but in large enterprises there's usually three or five rounds and you have to go through and it's important that you ask about that so you know what's coming in and let's you be a more informed a more informed candidate you know if it is remote do they on board remotely or do you are you required to go in to an office to be on board it and get you a computer and you your staff now United Health Group does a really good job onboarding we're lovely they send you a computer they send you monitors printers whatever else you need and you know if a woman they have a liar VoIP that they send you and all sorts of stuff they literally send you a desk in the box and you on board accordingly [Music] one question that I use all the time that's kind of a user researcher question that sometimes throws people for a loop night and I never I'd never had it used on me until very recently I had a lady who was interviewing me for a position in New York City that's but used it on me unprompted and I blew me away and I was like oh I gotta pay attention now but it's uh is there anything that people normally ask that I haven't asked that I should and what that accuses the interviewer into is you know is there anything that I eat that you would normally hear from a user that you haven't yet for me so that's a really good one okay so Doug asked an informational interview question earlier it was where we talked about those behavioral interviews and he wants to clarify my informational interviews Doug was talking about when you reach out to a professional and do so in order to learn more about what that professional does seeing they have any advice for you he said that this is something that he's always recommended and he's wondering if he still think that this is effective and if people are still willing to do those informational interviews yes yes and one of the big things that I tell just about every bootcamp right now every newbie that comes to me whether they've been to a bootcamp or not is go get yourself a mentor it can be me I'm happy to serve in that capacity it can be I typically look for mentors for companies that I really admire so like my where I want to end up in my career is like executive vice president of use of research or whatever that is it hasn't even been created yet that I know of but I want to get there one day I know where I want to end up I just don't know the path so I look for for people who who hold something similar to that chief experience officer or whatever it is and and go talk to them I think boot campers should have up to like four mentors which so like one a week and just check in with them once a week right so you have one one week one you know second week you have another one third week you have another one for the weekend pepper them with questions anything that you can think of and they can be the same questions that you asked last week just to see if you can get a different answer there's nothing wrong with if you're a user researcher I think mentorships are so important because it teaches you that kind of that conversational mechanism by which we gain insights from others and a user researcher knows when right when they're being interviewed as in in the context of research right and so we're happy to to help in that manner right but I think mentorship is is incredibly and great thing about mentors is that if you you know their company is hiring right those mentors hear about it usually before anyone in HR has the opportunity to write a job description and put it out for general consumption and and if you have a really good relationship with your mentors don't think of you before they think of anyone else and that's that can be the difference between a I got a job and you know I missed out you know because I didn't have a good mentor so yeah usually important keep doing it I never ask that question keep looking for mentors and and be a mentor to somebody else be astounded what you know when somebody asks you what do you think what's the next so there are some folks who are not as familiar with some of the terminology they would like to know what you mean by boot camper is that a UX classification it is not and I'm sorry about the the jargon I really try not to use too much jargon I really do so feel free to ask me definitions totally okay with it answering any questions about definitions a boot camp or is somebody who every camper is somebody who essentially went to school to school right they're not gonna attach to any universe now but they're not necessarily educational institutions like University Segen has one but like Old Dominion doesn't have a bootcamp they're expected you're expected to learn about human factor psychology and economics and then transition in the UX they are companies like General Assembly and springboard and others who charge a good amount of money to to teach people you UX design research and architecture that sort of thing so that's what a boot camp arisen so when you graduate out of that you're a boot camp I went to boot camp to learn this in the enterprise and really in UX generally there's a there's a lot of stigma around boot campers and that for whatever reason and I've never figured out why this is but when people in boot campers graduate they're so hungry and they're so itchy and to get into the into the workforce that that sometimes they come across as being like wire you know the or like Batman like I can do everything myself alone and and nobody actually works that way not an enterprise anyway so it can get a little edgy right so that's one thing to keep in mind I I had a boot camera reach out to me and tell me that out of 30 people in their little cohort only 5 of them actually got jobs essentially the boot camp and I won't name who they are got them an interview for an internship with a larger enterprise and when that enterprise made their selections of who they wanted to work with everybody else basically got ghosted and that led to a posting oh god probably three months ago now where I said if you went to a boot camp and you've got ghosts and you come find you know I'm happy to mentor you and do whatever you need me to do portfolio reviews resumes etc because and I think I think stigmas are dumb I think that people if you give them a chance amazing what they can do and I think that's especially true for boot campers because a lot of them are people that are workforce that are trying to transition as something that is more akin to what they believe and kind of probably is more lucrative than the job they held or they at least find more fascination with it than the job they have so these are working professionals who have very advanced degrees who who are trying to get any UX because they're trying to benefit a user and I think that's exemplary and I think that's something worth encouraging and I think the stigma behind it is dumb so I'm not gonna play into it I'm gonna actually help them as much as I can and I think good could you Xers do that and should do that so Joel we've got about one minute left um I can get this final question in and then if there are any other questions I'll make sure that we get those to you and you have the opportunity to respond the last question and our next speaker will be joining pretty soon so I want to be mine full of that but what are your thoughts on translating existing research skills like TV audience analytics to UX research have you seen people make a smooth transition and what key advice would you give so if you're doing an audience analytics great thing is that you're you're essentially custom making your way into a quantitative research position probably the biggest thing I can it's a little bit of advice I can give to you always keep the user in mind the trouble of course with viewer audiences is that you're dealing with very large numbers of big data statistics if you can take that giant you know cut of of people right and get it down to like one and figure out the insights that one can provide you that will then extrapolate into the users in other words instead of a bottom down approach or a bottom but large the small things small the large it's just change your change your perspective and and I think that you can you can make it way very quite successfully actually I haven't seen anybody doing that but that doesn't mean you can't be the first before I go you can find me on LinkedIn Joanne bar I shouldn't have any trouble finding me I have a bowtie on if that helps if there's more than I know there's more than one Joel Baran on LinkedIn because we're all friends you know we all we're all friends together and come find me and I'll be happy to mentor you or look at your resume portfolio talk you want to talk to you up I'm happy to we're all in this together remember to give yourself grace remember to love yourself there's no one else like you so keep up keep trying and keep fighting you have this I believe in you thank you so much Joel this has been a great conversation we appreciate your time thanks to blow and thanks to you for for accelerant for wanting to me to pontificate for an hour's optimize with you of course any other questions we'll be sure to send those over to you okay have a great day thanks
