Who X: UX, CX, EX, What's Next? Personal Notes on Experience Maxing

All right. Uh, Char, I see you are on, so I think we can get started um with with our next presentation here. But, um, I'll lay out some ground rules. Um, obviously, uh, appreciate everyone joining today. I know we have a action-packed day. Um, and we're we're going on a couple couple talks now. Um, I'm Rick Kuski. I'm the VP of research and growth here at Accelerant. uh you know just laying out the ground rules that we've heard a couple times now but obviously we're at the mercy of tech. I know we had some audio issues earlier uh but you know please please be respectful um and then also utilize the this as a networking engaging interacting um you know a lot of our uh speakers have a lot of thought and diversity within the industry from market research to UX and CX and all the all the stuff um which is a great segue to kind of the topic that we're going to be discussing here today right who x cxux what's next um but without further ado uh I'll kind of throw throw it over to Cheryl. I'll be within the chat. Feel free to ask questions. I'll kind of moderate today's session. Um, and you know, Cheryl, whatever works best for you if you want people to kind of ask questions throughout and I can kind of uh interject and and kind of relay those or uh however you want to kind of lead this conversation. >> Yeah, sounds great. I'm open to folks chiming in. I'll go ahead and share my screen. Is that coming up okay for everyone? >> Yep. Perfect. >> Awesome. And I'll also share this should be a um open presentation. Let me see here. Uh in the chat if that's okay, I'll post the link to the slides. It should be uh uh generally open to the public. There are uh some citations and things that I think would be really interesting. So please feel free to follow along the slides if you like and uh share any thoughts or questions in the slides directly too. We can always have a conversation about them. So great. All right, I'll go ahead and start us off. Uh, I'm Cherylyn. I am the associate director of UX research at Verizon Connect. Um, and I've got a talk today called Who X, UX, CX, EX, what's next? Lots of experiences that are being designed. And for our Gen Z folks, uh, also call this uh, personal notes on experience maxing. All right, so we're going to be talking a lot about different kinds of frameworks of experiences. Um, a quick note at the top. Uh, these are really just my personal opinions of what I'm observing and seeing in the experience strategy world. Um, I'm wondering if you all feel the same. So, if you see yourself represented in a lot of these concepts or conversations, uh, please let me know. Lots of information to cover today, but three things that I hope that you take away with you from this talk is one, things change. Uh there's always going to be huge shifts in all of our different fields. Some of us are newer to fields. Some of us have been around the block and we've seen these kinds of changes happen. We can have different kinds of emotions about them. So I think uh one of my old colleagues said it best. The only constant is change. Expect that change and level set your expectations that way. For as much as things change, things also tend to stay the same. You'll see a theme of that throughout the talk today. Um, and also remember you are throughout all of this you are a living breathing wonderful soul and all of the things that you're going to be designing whether you are a researcher or a designer whatever role you may have don't forget that your integrated experience as someone who exists in the world is important to bring to that practice. All right. I don't know if you all are familiar with this talk, but every so often I see things like this. The future of insert field here is going to die somehow. Um, and you see notes like this. The bad news is that junior talent is going to have a rough time getting the broad experience needed to be successful in new operating models, especially with the innovation that AI brings. And you see articles like this for us who started out in UX research, things like UX is dead. And you see that this was published uh earlier this year um or earlier uh this time last year, I mean, but I also saw this article the year before. I saw also saw this article the year before that. So maybe this is something that we just generally feel at the rate of change that we are seeing in our fields. lots of discussion about how there is this meta conversation about how things often uh uh happen and so lots of folks writing and publishing ideas on what is that feeling behind that dying kind of idea right um I think what really helps me kind of center around this thought is that the Norman doors will never go away uh whatever you call it you're going to be designing experiences for people to engage with right um and so when I see this conversation playing out. I also see this kind of through line throughout all of the information that's being shared. What we might call UX strategy or experience strategy right now uh can overlap across all of our different fields of specialization. How is that different from a UX specialist for instance or before that an information architect and a usability expert and even before that a human factors engineer or someone who works in ergonomics. So, I wanted to really nail that down with two folks that uh I really consider to be philosophers, modern-day philosophers within the field of UX. And I think their learnings can really expand into any kind of experience designing that we do uh in in all of our respective fields. The first person I want to shout out is Paul Boschers. He's an amazing teammate. Uh we've had a lot of really great conversations around this and there's a quote that he shared with me uh way back when when we started our work together. He said, "What you do for work isn't much different from what you do in life." And I want that to resonate with people. Really sit with that. What you do for work isn't much different from what you do in life. It's going to come back around as I finish up for today. The other person I want to shout out is April Durret. She was a former mentor and leader as part of our team and she once told me that adaptability is your superpower. And that really resonated with me as someone who has gone through different kinds of changes both within the context of AI and other technological shifts but also just in my career. What I mean is that I started out uh as a premed major in in undergrad really focusing on wanting to help people. But I learned over time that really what I was kind of zeroing in on is that I really had a skill set in empathizing with people. And so I thought maybe I should go into clinical counseling. psychology really drew me in. From there, it wasn't so much that I wanted to do counseling and and and focus on the empathizing work solely. I also wanted to understand some of the mechanisms that helped us make meaning and a world view. So, I moved into my PhD in experimental psychology and cognitive neuroscience. And this is where I learned how our brains work and how different pieces of our brain fit together for us to create those world viewpoints. And then finally I thought this is great thinking deep deep deep thought but I want to do something with that information and that's how UX found me. I turned into a problem solver and I started solving problems uh first as a quantitative UX researcher with Verizon connect uh and now that role has evolved even more which is the bulk of what I'm going to be talking about today. And so I felt really comfortable bringing this conversation to Accelerant Research because Accelerant Research brought us together during a time when we were all locked down. uh during COVID created these virtual insights conferences for us and allowed us to share some of those thoughts. So I actually got to present with this group uh in 2020 about how I brought that clinical counseling skill set to my UX research practice and shouted out various folks from the team that that did the same. So that's where I started in industry. I was rooted in UX and I wanted to talk a little bit about how we've matured our practice in the UX field as a UX research team. I'm citing a lot from Maize's model of UX research uh maturity. And if you're interested in learning more about this maturity model, there's a link in the slide to download that report. Um let's go through those stages. So the first one is a limited stage of research. Um oftentimes you may see things like no dedicated researchers on a team, no particular research goals, though folks are interested and curious about their users. uh decisions are mostly made based on market indicators or business functions rather than customer user feedback. Maybe it's brought in at later stages of discovery or research. Uh but it's not officially called that or nor is there a dedicated team focused on that. And there's a dependence on listening channels. Data collection happens externally from the group that's doing that work. Um they're pulling insights from places where they can gather them. There's no specific funnel to get that insights back to those internal teams. And what UX looks like in this realm of limited research is that you get general feedback. You know, mostly qualitative, maybe some quantitative in survey design. You also have very dispersed knowledge. Teams that are in very strict silos, not a lot of flexibility. Information isn't really stored in a central place or shared across these teams and very scrappy methods. So data collection happens most of the time with luck. If you've got a leader that's focused on it or if you happen upon a listening channel that is a gold mine of insights eventually as you do that you move into the sporadic stage of research maturity. This is research that's conducted more routinely but on an ad hoc basis. And so here you may see a lot of post-launch research. After something like a product has been shipped you do that feedback also known as ad hoc research. Sometimes you see research teams of one. This is where folks are starting to dedicate resources to research and they're going to scale up eventually, but they want to try this out with maybe one or two experts in the field. Oftentimes you have dispersed researchers. Maybe teams in silos identify researchers that they want to work with and bring them in, but those researchers aren't really part of an integrated team. And there are a lot of unstandardized processes. So maybe different researchers have different styles. That information isn't stored or shared in a consistent or systematic manner. And things that you see in this stage include concept and prototype validation. This is where the bulk of that research takes place. Feature validation. Maybe the idea has already been created and you're getting feedback on that idea or general feature that's going to be released. Uh but that research isn't necessarily going to inform that specific launch. We see a lot of rapid research in this phase as well. lead times of about two weeks, similar to a design sprint, very small scope and very targeted feedback. All right, so we're we're getting somewhere. We're building our research practice. The next stage will be developing. This is where research comes in a little bit earlier into the life cycle. It's now starting to be considered as a particular function that can have dedicated resources. And things you may see in this phase include things like frameworks for data collection and storage. There's a team of researchers that are now starting to gather together and talk about their methods. You also start to loop in things like legal and best practices reviews. Maybe there are particular informed consent things that you want to cover and make sure that there's boilerplate template language to be able to use in every study. Team also creates templates for discussion guides and other resources and insights are shared across teams. So what does a UX research team look like in this phase? Well, maybe you're doing more product discovery work and the insights that you gather from that work start to shape how that product or outcome will be released to the public. You can also maybe help with feature prioritization in that you can help shape the road map. Maybe certain things that folks had hypotheses about being the next big thing that they need to work on are validated in this stage. Or maybe you help rep prioritize that work as well. And then your researchers get to talk about business impact. This is where you start to have metrics that you can actually track over time to see how impactful the work is and how successful you are. From there you move into the systematic phase which is where research is conducted consistently. There are resources dedicated to it and it is upfront and center. Things you might see in this is that research becomes part of the cross functional team process. customer insights are translated well into next steps for the business and you're actually following a true double diamond approach and Stephanie from our team who presented earlier today talked about that true double diamond approach. This is that process of discovering, defining, developing and delivering with all of these particular goals in mind. And the thought here in this phase of research is that you go through this double diamond approach consistently and it's an infinite loop of insights that you generate. So from there you may see more internal research, not just working with customers, not just working with your audience base, but also learning more about your internal systems and how that impacts the work and what gets released. You may also see process improvements, so research being done to help make those processes as solid as possible. And maybe you start to see other areas of specialization like service design. And partnering with service designers is really helpful in understanding how all of those pieces fit together. That's where the real strategy starts to come in. You're embedding these insights into the way that you work as a group and organization. And so strategic research helps to inform those decisions. This is where you may see things like research leaders becoming thought leaders in an organization. You may see a recentralized team where you may have had embedded siloed off research researchers from each other. You now see a bringing back together of those people. Maybe you see forward thinking methods like the adoption of AI and the org is empowered to democratize those processes, democratize and learn those research processes that your team has set up to create this one brain hive mind research. I I love what uh Lauri you were sharing here of being able to share data across different tools and create an ecosystem of insights. So what you start to see here is the use of foundational research outside of a particular product or feature or outcome. You see folks gi being given the space to understand their core user base just as they are day-to-day as human beings living life. And from that research you uncover user core needs. You understand what it is that they're trying to accomplish with your teams, with your products, with your solutions. And maybe you start to influence things like a point of view about your customers. Maybe your research starts to influence things like a customer credo that your entire business adopts or even co-creates with you. So now we're talking about more than just UX. And this is a shift that I and my team have been experiencing where we're stepping outside of user experience into CX or customer experience. Again, the seismic shift that we've gone through in our transition into customer experience work. truly looking at the experience end to end. We're moving from the double diamond approach within UX research over to this customer journey approach from end to end. And again, those phases could include awareness of a product, a group, a brand, a solution, consideration of whether or not that customer wants to engage with that outcome. Purchase decisions. How do I sign up and how do I actually interact with that product or solution? retention. What does that life cycle look like for the customer? And loyalty, how do I stay with this product or solution? And and how do I really become an advocate and champion for it? This is where you start to see information and insights start to be leveraged in a customer journey. And again, love what Laura said in the previous talk from the team with Indeed. Uh a theme that I hope that is emerging in this presentation is that everything's connected. So all of that research data and our people uh whether they're customers or teammates all need to be in the loop. So as you're looking at this framework, you may start to see things like research being leveraged at the level of, you know, customer user interview transcripts. Maybe you see things like decision-making practices starting to be influenced or or shaped. Maybe you see things like those customer core needs really starting to establish uh the framework that folks have, these mental models that folks have about the audience they're serving. Maybe you also see moments of delight across the customer journey that you can shout out and and really pitch to gain that loyalty from your audience base. And finally, advocacy, customer testimonials. How do you share customer stories that may be representative of of new prospects and put them front and center so that those news new prospects can see themselves reflected in that and say, "Hey, that sounds like me. Maybe I want to engage with this group. Maybe I want to use their solutions." And increasingly that work is shaped by our perceptions as employees. So, not only are you thinking about the customer experience and what you can do to make that better, but it's highly highly tied to how efficient your internal teams are in working with each other and being able to produce really high quality output outcomes, things that customers really, really find motivating and want to make them stick around. So, we get to the ex part of the conversation. CX and EX are highly highly tied together. And I want to bring in this concept that I learned from a former mentor, Alicia Nochman, who was a former leader in our in our group. This concept is Conway's law. And some of you may already be familiar with it. Conway's law states that organizations that design systems will have those designed systems mimic the communication structure that your internal teams actually have. So whatever pain or frustration your employees and your teammates feel eventually are felt by customers and it will impact the customer experience. So essentially the way a group communicates internally will be reflected externally. I love what uh Chief Martekch here published a link here in the slides that you can read more. But it's not just about the communication structure and it's not just about the solutions that you develop together. It's also about an organizational's structure, their beliefs, their culture, and their whole philosophy about how they work together. And so I really wanted to expand on this idea of Conway's law. How does your organization really mirror what you're putting out there into the world? Um, and maybe one step further and abstracted from that, how do we as, you know, show up as people at work and how does that impact the people that we work with externally? Now, there's a lot of really great research that speaks to that CXEX connection. Um, I had a chance to get to present with Dovetail. Shout out to the Dovetail team at Forester CX last year. And during that, uh, uh, conference, I got to see, uh, Angelina Guinness present connect EX to CX for real transformation. It's a fantastic talk. They also have a publication that you can access if you go to forers materials. And a quick screenshot of what they have on their current site showcases the core needs that you have to have when developing and and really introducing exploring the CXEX connection. It means that you have to have a foundation of psychological safety. So without psychological safety, you can't actually learn how your teams are working together. And you should have a collaborative approach to solutionizing those things. Co-create solutions with your employees. get their feedback because not only are they going to be experts in the customer user experience, they're also going to showcase where are those solutions feasible and where might there be blockers or or gaps that need to be solved for in order to deliver that most efficient system. Lots more publications on this. uh saw this uh article from Andrew Rice. And what Andrew highlights is that uh when employee motivation is impacted, you can also see a downside in all of the great output that you could be creating. And similarly, AJo has a article called the symbiotic relationship between EX and CX. There they really drill this down into the three C's. Communication, connectivity, and celebration. And what I really love about that third point is elevating employee and thus customer culture. Bringing a sense of optimism um showcasing and celebrating the wins that you have along the way in all of your hard work. These things are central to the way that Aayo thinks about the ex CX connection. And if you're interested in learning more about all of these different pieces that create these elements, uh all of the links to these articles are included in the slides in the notes section. All right. So, we've talked about uh you know the UX CX EX piece. Uh some additional thoughts that I have regarding the ex piece is that when I look at these articles, they really kind of boil down into these two central points. Psychological safety, uh you know, encouraging a culture of honesty, encouraging a culture of constructive feedback and creating those communication channels for folks. And then there's this kind of couch catchall, you know, uh, term that I call employee engagement. I mean, I'm not the only one using that phrase. That's a well-established phrase. Uh, but what I mean by employee engagement is doing meaningful work. Um, encouraging meaningful conversations and collaboration and recognizing meaningful contributions, really helping to elevate those practices as well as elevate a a a culture that you are co-creating together. But I do want to kind of bring it back to uh what I showcased with Paul and April's quotations at the beginning of today's presentation. I think there's also an element of authenticity that I haven't seen in these other frameworks before. Um a great example uh is one that Stephanie I'm going to shout you out again. Uh Stephanie Bone uh gave a great presentation on her mentorship framework that she developed with our teams and during her intro she shared that she is a huge fan of D&D and there was a question that came from the group that asked how does DND shape how you may do some of that uh UX research. Um, we do an exercise called dog fooding where we roleplay our customers uh based on what we know about their day-to-day lives. Um, what areas they they focus in on and how they might respond to um the different kinds of solutions that we're providing or how they might inform our understanding of their problem space. If Stephanie hadn't brought that thinking uh behind D&D into that those dog fooding activities and if other folks on our team hadn't thought about things that they feel passionate about, we might not have had that diversity of thought. Uh we wouldn't have had that creativity aspect to all the things that uh we're we're working on. Um, just as much as we think about best practice methods, making sure that we're up to date on industry standards, I think there's an element of creativity and um, personalization that can come into our methodology that elevates the whole practice. And so now we have a a language that we can use to explain what we're doing. Um, and it came from Stephanie's passion and motivation. Um, I love what Paul had me think about when it came to this slide. um he often cites that teams serve as sensory organs and it really speaks to this sense of an organization being a living breathing thing because it's made up of living breathing human people. Um that's why I think we use terminology like pulse checks with teams. We want to know how things are going. We want to know what the state is uh right now for f for folks. And also it allows us to acknowledge the natural es and flows that come with all of these different transitions. If we zoom all the way back and think about the the AI innovations that are, you know, impacting our day-to-day and and also shaping the future of our work, it makes us more resilient um to a lot of these shifts and changes. We're expecting them. We know that we are an organism in flux. Um and what I really really love about Paul's approach to his work um and just his approach to life in general is that research doesn't just happen out there somewhere. You are part of it. We talk a lot about researcher bias and making sure that our practices are as protected against that as possible, but it's also kind of impossible to remove the human element from all of that work. Um, I think a lot of the discussions earlier today talk about how do we ensure that we keep the human in the loop. Well, if a human is in the loop, the human factor will show up in the work that's being done. We're part of the work that we're doing. We are championing and advocating. And by showing up as authentic people in this framework, uh maybe folks feel more reflected and represented as a result. So I think authenticity is also an important part of thinking about this ex element. I also want to say a few words about adaptability. Um, April shared that that was a superpower that I have, but I think that if you meet anyone else who works in UX or in research in particular, you know, at a more general broader sense, no person walks exactly the same path. Um, when I think about the team that I get to be a part of, none of us started in the same place, but we all found ourselves in UX and we all bring different areas of expertise with us. And so moving through all these different spaces, this interdisciplinary approach to the work really strengthens uh our approach as a whole and moving through all of these spaces without that feeling of a threat to our identity makes us more resilient as well when these seismic shifts happen. Uh so for instance, I had to move from I am a researcher in my title to you know I'm just a curious person. Uh it's my curiosity that really led me to be a researcher. And so how do I rem, you know, remain in that mindset that the titles may come and go. The ecosystem may change, but it doesn't change the fact that I'm still going to be curious and that's what I can bring to a team. So we're going through this shift. We've gone through a reorg. We are also contemplating major shifts in our fields. What else can we glean? What's next? Right? And so I find myself in a very philosophical state when I'm contemplating this. I'm kind of post identity here. like the job title doesn't really matter as long as what I'm doing in that space matters to me and I can contribute meaningfully to that group. And so I wanted to share this isn't a new concept either. Even within Conway's law, folks are already talking about the inverse of that. So a space where experience design can can play a role is understanding this kind of two-way street, right? It isn't just that Conway's law dictates that what an organization does internally is going to be reflected externally, but it's also as much the adaptation of that external audience to fit what that solution is from that organization. There's there's an onboarding process with folks. Uh there is a getting to know the infrastructure with folks. And so how do those folks adapt themselves to fit that experience? what could we be doing, designing, researching to help that feel as authentic, uh, feel as adaptable as the folks that we serve? And so I I really in learning more about this inverse Conway's law, this kind of two-way street, uh, that that that really plays a huge element in what the field could look like next. Um, some thoughts that I have uh, all kind of bubble up to thought leadership. So for example, as your teams become more mature in those specific areas of expertise, whether it's research, design, marketing, whatever it could be, um you are going to see an evolution of a skill set. You're going to see yourself explore this post identity world. Um also, how can that help us adapt in that inverse Conway's law perspective uh to user customer representation? If we think about customers from populations that have historically been marginalized, what opportunities can we then provide folks who have felt ignored, how can we help adapt solutions for them as well as provide easy weigh-ins for those folks to come into our solution space? There's also a lot to be said for organizational representation and empowerment. a lot of the CXEX work that we've been able to get a viewpoint on uh really helps elevate folks voices and so how do we create consistent channels for our employees and our teammates to share what's on their mind share their creative methodologies uh share their creative problem solving skills and also help translate what they're coming up with into real solutions internally and also how do you shape company company philosophies uh maybe it's more than just a customer credo but it actually helps shape how a co a company, you know, plants their flag in the outside world. Um, oftentimes we look at that from a top down perspective. You get the mission from top down, but how could a team swarm on that together and co-create uh that mission statement? And that that also helps uh touch on things like representation uh from the organizational standpoint, but also the user and customer standpoint and also helps your team mature in the way that they're thinking. this is a very large scope of thinking um outside of what we're used to. Where do I see that leading? I think that's the key to truly breaking down the silos that many of us mentioned in in previous talks on the panel and that I'm sure all of you have also experienced. Um how can we really break this down in that uh information is flowing all ways? uh folks are really tapped into the insights that all of our teams are learning and we get closer and closer to that kind of one brain hive mind structure that's constantly learning and constantly uh bettering and then how do we find that Conway's law balance if we're expecting that two-way street and we're expecting to design experiences for folks as they enter into our solution space uh what could we do to build a better more responsive system to that um how can it be adaptive and I that ultimately leads to what comes next. What other experience comes next? Whether uh you know it's an offshoot of UX, CX or EX specifically or if it's a completely new kind of experience that we're all striving toward. That's the thought leadership element and I think that's where you really hit peak maturity from a team perspective. So what are some of the things I'm seeing? Um it could be a rebranding but it also could be a rethinking of all of these elements. things like upskilling. If you're on a team that is focused on learning in development or learning in careers or or a learning organization, how do you think about designing learning experiences using these design principles, using these research practices and really creating more immersive, interesting new solution spaces for upskilling teams? How do you create new training experiences? Uh how do you allow folks who haven't been engaged in those training experiences to learn by also joining? Um, this could help break down silos between teams that don't know how each other functions, right? When you think about promotion, promoting your solution spaces, this is marketing, maybe PR, um, maybe you're going to be designing a brand experience, right? So, how do you help mirror what you're seeing and and and learn from your data insights, mirror that out to the customer? How does it how do you make it feel more like them? When it comes to finances and strategy, maybe you're working on forecasting work. You're looking down the horizon and you're thinking three years, five years, 10 years out. Maybe you're designing the future, the future experience. Maybe it's ethics. And so here, how do you help inform decision-m? How do you create pillars that describe the main drivers or factors of that decision- making? And how can you cater that to all of the different customers that you're going to be serving? Um, if you can establish a framework, establish a set of pillars that you know are core to those audiences, maybe you become a thought leader in your own right. And then finally, transforming. How do you think about this from a strategic perspective? Maybe you're in a consulting space. How do you think about that evolution? How do you guide folks through that evolution? Um, and so maybe that's a growth experience that you're designing. So it could be an LX, a BX, an FX, a GX that comes next. Uh but if you think about adapting all of these experiences from that core perspective of bringing it back to the people, uh then you could design any experience that you want. For me personally, I I'd like to share some of the the work that I'm doing in this space now. Um I'd like to shout out the UXR Institute. I I've been working with founder Leo and the amazing team uh to understand how can we rethink ways to structure core foundational information and theory and pair that really deliberately with application uh especially for UX researchers. How do we talk more about the application of their skill sets in these different spaces? Um I'm seeing a lot of discussion and and the team is seeing a lot of discussion over what skill sets are going to be needed as we step into this new space. And so we offer a bunch of different courses that allow you to explore that. Uh so shout out to Harmony who t teaches a course on survey methodology um specifically for product impact. Um I teach a course for stats that you can use in your everyday work. Um also Leo teaches an AI for UX research course looking at how to use that responsibly much to the same uh methods and and purposes that previous panelists have talked about. How do we do this ethically? uh how do we do this in a way that is just as rigorous but have those human check steps in the process. Um Angela is teaching a course on advanced user interview training. So how do we ensure that everything that we do comes from a framework like this that there there's solid rigor and and and procedural methods that allow us to ensure best practices. And then also Bianca is going to be teaching this amazing course on conjoint analysis and max diff analysis. Um, so if you're interested in understanding how to, you know, unlock and and and, uh, uh, empower the work that you're doing in these spaces for all different kinds of applications, uh, check out Bianca's work here. I'm also thinking about how does this, you know, AI in particular impact, uh, the the way that I'll be working through this seismic shift. So, uh, check out UX 360, especially if you're a UXer. Um, just as Ben from the pre previous presentation shared with the team at Indeed, um, we're all kind of sharing our perspectives on how AI helps with these shifts. Um, what things to be aware of as potential pitfalls or or you know, risks. Um, and I also want to look at that from a sense of maturity model. Um, what does AI use look like for a limited research team versus a very strategic research team? Um, how do you navigate that expansion from UX to CX to EX using AI? um what is it good for, what is it not good for? Um and move from one framework to another. So that's really what I had for us today. Um I I'm really curious about the Q&A if there are any other thoughts or questions that folks have. Um I also want to ask what's next for you? I've got some prompts in case that helps jog some thoughts. Um the first prompt is where are you in this? Are you experiencing a similar shift? Are you going through a reorg or a rethinking of what your work looks like? Um the second prompt could be where do you want to go? Um what projects or work do you find yourself feeling really inspired by and and tell us about uh what those projects are? Um why do you find that so interesting? Um maybe what are some of the core motivations and and interests and passions that you have that help you align to that? Um and the third prompt may be who do you want to work with? Are there teams that you still haven't gotten a chance to meet that you'd really love to get to work with and learn from? So whether you have an organic question that you'd like to share now or if it's one of these three prompts, uh I'll open it up for Q&A and um yeah, let's have a discussion. I'm wondering any questions so far? Not so much a question, but I was having a similar conversation with some of my former Walmart researchers last night uh about this specifically, right? Uh and and I think this was such a great segue from the last conversation we had to where we're at now. um in in terms of you know the utilization of AI and also the the tools that we have as researchers and and like you said it's really adaptability and proactivity right um how are we combining forces within the industry to work smarter to take things from other areas right you're in telecommunications but what are they using in big tech what are they using in agency side and and how are we combining that thought leadership to not only just make sure that UX isn't dead uh or you know research search isn't dead, but uh we're we're leading from the forefront and we're helping actually create and and really become what this new technology is and just makes us better as as researchers, right? It's our our superpower that can amplify our abilities tenfold. >> Yeah, I love that, Brett. It's it's it's so true. And like there's a lot of pieces out there folks are talking about how do you then evolve in your own career to tackle those challenges? Um you mentioned you know how are all of these other spheres like big tech and other companies uh adapting and and using these tools for that purpose. Uh it's also about where you want to be right. So I'm seeing that there's a conversation for early career folks who may be losing out on these opportunities to learn these skills. We've gotten some great suggestions from fellow panelists on what to focus on, how to learn how to build things and be open and have that curious mindset to help grow that function, right? Um, but there's also this aspect of later stage uh folks in their careers as they're uh maybe thinking about retirement or transitioning into other fields. There's a lot of discussion and buzz about consultancy and how could you move into that consultant role uh gain experience from across different groups, different uh industries, uh and help usher that thought leadership forward. So, it's really interesting. I don't know that it's a linear progression or or path to uh uh you know career building anymore. Um it's very like cyclical and almost mimics uh you know a typical kind of like life cycle generally. >> Yeah. I I I think in a a very interesting point that you just pulled out was there is so much focus or hyperfocus on those trying to get within our industry, right? Those that are coming from academia, those that are coming straight from undergrad or masters programs like those farming systems uh that lead into the industry and and how competitive the roles are. Um but something that just stuck out that you you know you started pointing out to me was uh those that have been within the industry for let's say 15 plus years and seen the changes and right this is such a major change of how companies are almost over pushing AI and and using it as a crutch. um would love your opinion and and just your thoughts on you know the need to adapt or what you're seeing as resistance within those that have been within the industry for a longer tenure right >> yeah I I'm curious to hear from folks as well if if if folks have thoughts but one person who comes to mind this is kind of impromptu so I hope it's okay uh but I'll shout out Colin Lai he's an amazing designer and a design leader in in our organization and we had a conversation recently about where do you put all those thoughts? Like he has these really amazing complex thoughts about AI and he's kind of thinking about what do I where do I put them? Um and so similarly to what you just shared Brett of what is that progression look like? Where do folks in all of those different spaces go? Um if it's not linear then how do you create these new spaces? How do you advocate for that? Um how do we not worry so much about whether or not our title matches what the job description may look like? And how do we tell our stories in a way that really resonate with folks who are looking for that expertise to say you might not have even thought about who I am um you know from a from a from a job perspective or from a you know previous area of expertise you may not have considered a candidate like this to help solve that problem but here's how I can do that and I think it mimics a lot of how we talk about AI will take care of a lot of the hard skills but it's where the soft skills come into play the soft skills communication, empathy. That's where human experts are really going to stand out and that's how we're going to get ahead. The better we're able to tell those stories and the better that those stories are able to land, I think the more success we'll see in this shifting job market. Um, obviously there's a ton of other factors that that play into that, but it's really this post identity kind of philosophy that I'm playing around with of it's not so defined. Um, and maybe there's something to that in the sense that there are folks that come from academia that have traditional training. I'll say traditional and an old model. Uh, but they have experience translating a lot of what they've done in those traditional spaces into these new solution spaces. Maybe in my experience, I learned a lot about data analysis and inferial statistics, but I don't know if that translates well to folks. So, what I can say is my skill set helps you boost your confidence in your decision- making. Here's how. And and so I think if we get better at that, we don't need to worry so much about what AI brings. Um I think it's more about uh telling human stories, how you can leverage AI to get you there and promoting the experience that you have in the field um and helping you judge whether or not you are successful and how successful you are. >> Yeah. I I think the big key uh the big thing that you just kind of spoke to is translation, right? And the framework is we can design or we can create or we can have all these great research insights, but the translation if that doesn't hit to whatever stakeholders or clients or whoever you're talking to that really needs the the value of the research, uh it's it's you're missing the mark on on kind of what we're doing, right? And um again, I think that's going back to your theme of adaptability of what resonates with your product folks is not going to resonate with design and probably not resonate quicker enough with design in terms of they need it a little bit quicker, right? Uh so it it's fascinating of of the game we have to play as researchers of you know we have to frame a lot of our insights in a way that our stakeholders can interpret them versus you know our our nerdy research speak at times that uh kind of just goes over people's head. Right. >> Absolutely. I love it. Uh I do see something from uh a in in the chat here uh a late career insights researcher um working with a startup team inside a major retailer Amazon. Um you know research is uh a researcher of one um struggling how to persuade leaders to grow research function. Half the stakeholders want to be or want hands-on research um and then the others want more of a program manager but aren't willing to add to the team. Um so they're going back and forth I guess with allocation and hey I'm I'm a researcher of one and and to uh you know having to manage the breath of a fortune 2 company that is Amazon right any any advice I know again Verizon is a fortune50 company you know I come from Walmart fortune one company or fortune 52 right but um any advice to to a researcher uh in a later care or later career stage that they're kind of stuck between, you know, if Amazon's going to take whatever you give it, um, and there's always going to be more work, how do you manage that workload? How do you advocate for research? Um, you know, what are what are your big kind of hit list of showing ROI, but also, uh, I guess, you know, providing value and and trying to grow an organization. >> Yeah, it's a great thought. It's a great space to just kind of like share here's how I'm feeling right now. And I see the the the question in the in the chat. Um it's not so maybe not so much a question but more reflections. It's this is what's on your mind. I I I I appreciate it. So thanks for sharing. Um I can see in your comment and I also know from having met a lot of folks who are research teams of one through UXR Institute it's exhausting. It's so tiring. Um the research work already is tiring because there's a lot of unseen uh like mental labor, psychological labor and emotional labor that is done uh because of the degree of empathy you need to have with customers or users and your stakeholders to do that translation. And that's not even talking about the meth various methods that you're already using, the time spent actually doing data collection. So, so I feel you. I've been there as well. I think everyone on our teams have felt that. Um sometimes you're the only person doing it. You you aren't going to get those resources. Um so I think Brett, you hit on it of first it has to be something that showcases ROI. Um if you're a late career insights researcher, um you you know the power of this already. The value of that ROI is going to get you more of those um resources to to get that buyin from leadership. Maybe that means headcount, maybe that means more tools. AI certainly does some of those uh you know kind of lower level info gathering tasks um but they're not going to be as good as you are in understanding how those insights and that data plays into the context of your business. Um one thing that I found really helpful or actually let me back up. One thing that I found not helpful in this conversation is what you shared Brett of like bringing coming at that argument or that conversation with that nerdy research talk. So, I'll say the maze model really helped me understand where I fit into this whole conversation, but I I did not get anywhere putting that model out in front of people and saying, "We're here. We got to move here." If there's nothing to show for that uh that move, all stakeholders will hear is, "Okay, so you want me to give you more money or more resources, but I don't know what I'm getting in return." So, I think really trusting that the value and the quality of your work will speak for itself. finding ways to reduce the burnout. Um, finding ways to uh make sure that you're filling your own cup. That's the phrase that that we like to say on our team. And make sure that you're doing this in a healthful way and trusting that your work will show its value. Um, I think also translating a lot of what your work is into business speak, business jargon. Um, this is advice that I've recently been given from my current leader, um, who's extremely inspiring. Um, and I'm also learning how to do this. So uh maybe moving past sharing the insight itself in the context that you are providing it. Maybe it's a product research question, maybe it's a marketing research question, whatever sphere it's in, figuring out a way to communicate that insight and translate it into another language. So if I can translate an insight that I have into dollars saved for for a company or time saved for a company or uh a new process that can be easily adopted uh and that has buyin from other folks that might be a language that folks are more ready to hear and and speak better than the research insight. Uh I would probably bet that because you are the research expert you're going to know that research insight inside and out. Um, so I think pairing that with something that uh is close to your stakeholders most uh you know top of- mind priorities helps you make the argument for additional research resources. Um again doing this in a in a healthful way uh so that you don't feel that exhaustion of having to to do all of that work, right? Um I I'm probably saying things that you already know given that you're a late career insights researcher. Um, but I guess the biggest thing that I want to just like really really focus time on in in my response is um, show them don't tell them uh is is really the the advice. Uh, I've gone through the show them part and was not met with with success. It it became very difficult to to to um, you know, move the conversation forward in that regard. Um, so I hope that helps. If if anything, even if that's information that you already knew, I hope it also helps showcase that you're not alone. You're not the only person who experiences that exhaustion and is kind of, you know, you know, I don't want to use too adversarial language, but fighting the good fight. Um, and if you want to talk more about what your experiences are like, hit me up on LinkedIn. always happy to just bounce ideas around and share more with more specificity what has worked for me, what I'm seeing has worked for other folks and and learn from you on what's working, what's not working, and how you're filling your own cup. >> I I echo the show don't tell. Um whether that's a product or design or especially design orgs, uh very visual. Um so obviously the the showing element um shameless plug of we are at Accelerant in a pro vendor. So bring us on, you know, uh we're we're always welcome to to help and and fight with you. Um and then the other part I think Charlotte, you hit it on this is is translations is um you're an Amazon and you know there are thousands of researchers at Amazon and being able to utilize other people's work and frame it in a different way. So insights that might be relevant to what you're working on, you don't necessarily have to do additional research for, but meta analysis and a huge component of that of hey, let's start from what we know and start eliminating out of these 10 questions, six of them, and then go into the four and and then prioritize them and figure out where does that fall between or or over the line um for for your specific organization. Um and then you know what we did at at Walmart was utilizing air table and being able to see hey these are this is the resourcing for my personnel and these are the amount of projects methodologies things we've done um and being able to then correlate that to impact like even directly from just tracking hey this is the amount of studies I was able to hit and this is the amount I wasn't for the year and if I just had one additional resource look out how much more we can do right quantifying that in a visual way uh we brought that to leadership and we got some some headcount approval pretty quickly just because of hey you guys are doing a lot but like we have so much more for you to do um and you know this is where we can add one one seat and it's going to generate you know 2.5 more uh in efficiency right so um again happy to to you know talk as well and and figure out how accelerant specifically or just uh the this is always something that I think a lot of us leaders within the space have dealt with and continue to deal with and and continue to as Cheryl and fight the good fight. >> Yeah, I love that. I I if I could add on really quickly, one thought that I had was there are probably other folks in your organization and that you could partner with that feel just as passionate about the topics you're covering or uncovering in your insights, bring them along. Uh we had a conversation today in a team meeting where it was like maybe they don't officially report into our org structure or something like that. Uh, but if you have great connections across your teams, just bring them along, have them join the party. Maybe they have some additional insights into how those ideas connect. And I also want to shout out Alexa Cario on our team. Um, she and I know Paul also have said things like researchers um are kind of professional gossips. And so if you kind of expand on Brett's idea here and saying, "Hey, did you know that there was a study that also touched on this and here's how it relates?" um or hey you had this finding last year and I don't know whose team did it but we had an insight that kind of connected to that showcasing that full endto-end uh application of those insights if we're talking about um endto-end experiences and journeys right that can also help take off some of the pressure there's folks within your org as well who are probably just as passionate about what you're doing um what a great way to uplift their hard work >> and and the bring along aspect too of I'm sure there's designers that are not 100% allocated. So, you know, they might have some downtime and can you teach them quick um agile methodologies? Can you teach them, you know, heruristics, right? And and that starts getting them a grounding point. And does that then make them a hybrid of a design researcher where you don't have to justify headcount and now you just open up additional resource of, you know, 20% 30% allocation to research specifically and, you know, do that with a couple folks. You got a you got an open roll right there, right? >> Love that. >> Awesome. Uh appreciate the time uh Cheryl the great presentation and really appreciate you coming in and and um obviously you know talking and and uh for for another time right uh back in 2020 and now um obviously Cheryl's on LinkedIn feel free to reach out uh you know she's opened up the kind of the bandwidth of uh she would love to discuss a lot of these topics and is clearly passionate about helping uh all levels of researchers throughout our space and and being able to navigate the internal politics to just what this role is and what it's morphing into and who knows what it could be in the future. Um, you know, great conversation. Uh, this res or this resource this this uh um talk will be uploaded both on YouTube and on our uh conference page on our website. So, feel free to visit that to if you you did miss it um or you know you've jumped in and out throughout the day. Um but again, Cheryl, thank you for your time and this was lovely. So, I appreciate it. >> Thank you. Thank you. And I think we uh have another one. So um I think Bill will be jumping on. So please stand by and and we're going to take a short break.