Pam Nelson, Senior Director of Customer Insights at TIAA, draws on 27 years of hiring experience to outline what separates research rock stars from average candidates on the client side. She covers the key dimensions to screen for, a behavioral interviewing approach, and a range of sourcing channels that go well beyond standard job postings. The session includes live audience prompts and Q&A on topics such as data visualization skills and non-traditional hiring paths.
Key Takeaways
- Hiring the wrong researcher is expensive in time, money, and organizational credibility. Treat the hire as a high-stakes investment, not a backfill.
- The single most important dimension for a generalist researcher is the ability to think from both sides of the brain: seeing quantitative patterns AND understanding the qualitative 'why' behind them.
- Behavioral interviewing forces focus on demonstrated behaviors, not hypothetical answers. Write questions that also set honest expectations about job stress and pace.
- Product knowledge can be taught. Empathy, natural curiosity, negotiation instinct, and storytelling ability are much harder to develop and should be weighted higher.
- Non-traditional sourcing channels, including contract workers, internal business partners, vendor partners, and team referrals, often surface better candidates than standard job postings alone.
- Researchers who are natural negotiators can save organizations thousands of dollars on vendor contracts. Treat negotiation aptitude as a concrete financial skill, not a soft one.
Questions & Answers
- What key dimensions do you look for when hiring research team members? (Jonathan Clancy, via Zoom)
- Jonathan listed comfort with quant and qual data, comfort moderating, familiarity with methodology, analysis skills, attention to detail, curiosity, humility, and the ability to get work done quickly. Nelson agreed and noted she had not explicitly covered pace, adding that a researcher who moves too slowly or works only one project at a time cannot effectively serve a large organization.
- When telling stories with data, how does the ability to use data visualization tools such as Tableau weigh in your recruitment? (Dwyane Third, via Zoom)
- Nelson values candidates who can share actual past research studies and demonstrate the specific tools they used, rather than just describing what they would do. She noted that confidentiality sometimes limits this, but when candidates have permission to share work samples, it provides a much clearer picture of real capability.
- Do you look for candidates who have experience with DIY tools? (Felicia Trimboli, via Zoom)
- Nelson said DIY experience is valuable and has been more important in some of her previous roles. In her current role at TIAA it is weighted less heavily because the team does not rely on DIY work as much. She noted that hiring from vendor partners is one way to bring in candidates who already have hands-on DIY skills.
- Audience prompt: Share a success story about finding researchers through non-traditional means. (Cindy Tran, via Zoom)
- Cindy Tran noted that she holds a degree in cognitive neuroscience and that companies initially dismissed her because her background did not look like a traditional market research path. She argued that non-traditional backgrounds can produce superior employees with transferable skills, and urged hiring managers not to dismiss candidates simply because their degree or prior role title does not match the job description.
Session Notes
Why Research Rock Stars Are Worth Their Weight in Gold
Strong researchers handle the most strategic questions inside an organization, interact directly with senior executives, and serve as the credibility of the entire insights function. Getting the hire wrong triggers a costly cycle of re-sourcing, retraining, and, in the worst cases, performance management and separation. Getting it right pays compounding dividends.
- They are internal consultants, not order takers. They ask the right questions and push back when needed.
- They save real money through skilled vendor negotiation, particularly when budgets are shrinking.
- They are natural storytellers who spread insights across the organization, not just to the sponsoring team.
- They believe in continuous improvement and are always looking for better ways to do the work.
- They are the face and brand of the insights team.
Key Dimensions to Screen For
These are the superpowers Nelson screens for when hiring generalist researchers on the client side. Not every candidate will have all of them, but absence of the core ones should be disqualifying.
- Ability to handle stress and a fast-paced environment. Deadlines, tight budgets, presenting bad news to large audiences, and pivoting at short notice are routine.
- Ability to notice trends and patterns. Applies to both quantitative data and qualitative interviews. Not everyone has this as a natural aptitude.
- Strong attention to detail and an analytical mind.
- Genuine desire to help business partners and the company succeed. People who care whether the question actually gets answered.
- Ability to build trust and relationships with business partners.
- Natural curiosity and strategic thinking. Constantly asking 'what if,' 'what about,' and 'what happens next.'
- Ability to juggle multiple projects and remain flexible. The work often requires reversing direction entirely at short notice.
- Creative problem solving. Willingness to try new methodologies and approaches.
- Storytelling with data. Collecting great data means nothing if findings cannot be communicated clearly across the organization.
- Passion for representing the voice of the customer. Genuine empathy for customers and their problems.
- Empathetic listening. Hearing the fine-tuned messages customers are trying to convey.
- Natural negotiation instinct. Critical for managing vendor contracts and getting the best value from budgets.
- Objectivity. Ability to set aside preconceived notions and take a truly neutral point of view.
The Single 'Gotta Have' Dimension
When hiring a generalist researcher, Nelson places one dimension above all others: the ability to think from both sides of the brain. Early in her career, researchers were either quantitative or qualitative, never both. Today, the best researchers can move fluidly between sequential, analytical thinking and intuitive, interpretive thinking. This combination allows them to see what the data shows AND understand why it looks that way.
You can teach product knowledge. But if they don't have the ability to be empathetic, a great team member, or really care about customers and business partners, then product knowledge doesn't matter quite so much.
A common hiring trap is overweighting 'nice to have' attributes, such as existing product knowledge, at the expense of screening rigorously for these core dimensions. Product knowledge can be trained. Empathy, curiosity, and dual-brain thinking are much harder to develop in someone who does not already have them.
Behavioral Interviewing: How to Surface These Dimensions
Behavioral interviewing asks candidates to describe specific past situations rather than explain what they would hypothetically do. Nelson highlights three reasons to use it:
- It forces the interviewer to focus on the dimensions that actually matter.
- In panel debriefs, it gives all interviewers a shared set of behaviors to compare across candidates.
- Questions can be framed to give candidates a realistic preview of the job, so they walk in with eyes open.
Sample Behavioral Interview Questions
- Flexibility, problem solving, and handling stress: 'This job can be stressful when things don't go according to plan, and that happens often. Can you think back on a project you were leading when things went off track? How did you handle it, and how did it turn out?'
- Team player: 'To succeed here, you need to be a strong team member. We collaborate constantly. Can you describe a time when you had to put the needs of the team ahead of your own? What was the situation, and what role did you play?'
- Dual-brain thinking and natural curiosity: 'Many of our projects are multimodal, both qualitative and quantitative. Can you share a time when you dug into the data to find the what, and then used additional questions to uncover the why? What problem were you solving, how did you solve it, and how did it turn out?'
Where to Find Research Rock Stars
Traditional Channels
- Internal and external job postings (Indeed, Monster, Glassdoor)
- Industry association newsletters and job boards, such as the Insights Association
- Specialized recruiters who know the research industry and have deep networks
Non-Traditional Channels (Often More Productive)
- Internships. A two-way audition. Both sides get to see if the fit is real before committing. The growing number of graduates with market research degrees makes this channel increasingly viable.
- Contract workers. Provides an extended evaluation period. Nelson's example: after cycling through three disappointing contractors, one walked in and performed so well that their business partners were actively advocating to hire them full-time.
- Internal business partners. Colleagues who already have the right dimensions and bring existing organizational knowledge, relationships, and networks. Their suitability can often be assessed through direct observation rather than an interview process alone.
- Team referrals. Research is a relatively small industry. Your own team members know people and can surface strong candidates within and outside the organization.
- Your own network. Hiring managers should not outsource recruiting entirely to HR. Calling contacts directly to ask if they know someone who fits is legitimate and effective. The worst answer is no.
- Vendor partners. Nelson was direct: she has hired from her own vendor roster and would do so again. Vendor partners have already demonstrated their skills in context, and the hiring manager has had sustained opportunity to observe them.
Transcript
Read the full transcript
introduce our next speaker right here that is pam um hi all i hope you guys are having a good day so far uh my name is sierra i'm a project analyst accelerant i'm excited to introduce uh our next speaker but before i do i'm just going to go over the rules one more time so again we are at the um the mercy of tech here and so if a problem arises with presenters or um with the presenter's device or wi-fi or if zoom itself starts to act up please be patient as we try to fix it um also please be respectful of everyone here i know it can be easy to um hide behind the screen so to speak please treat this as you would an in-person conference and remember that everyone here is a real person finally as you would at an in-person conference please continue to network and interact with each other and the presenter here um you can do this in chat if you are on zoom or using the youtube link you can also go on twitter or linkedin using the hashtag qvic2020 as you do that we encourage you to ask questions to our presenter either in the chat or in the q a on zoom sorry about that have alarms going off um this presenter actually has two props for you guys to marinate on and chat about while she's presenting and we'll be going over those at the end of the presentation with that i would love to introduce pam nelson prc she's the senior senior director of customer insights at ciaa and she's here to talk to you guys about hiring rockstar researchers thank you sierra and i'm gonna see if you all can see my screen can you all see this just stop sharing mine so you should be able to share it now can you see it now not quite all right let's try that again here it comes oh something's happening there you go there we go like you said we're at the mercy of tech there we go all right so we're going to talk about hiring research rock stars and i think that that everyone probably already knows how challenging it can be um to find the right people for these roles and in many cases if there's a real art and science to it and i'll be sharing some of my ideas some of my suggestions some of my recommendations um just some of my secrets actually of what i have gathered and garnered over the last 27 years of actually hiring research professionals many of which i would say you know have gone through plenty of trials and tribulations and made plenty of mistakes so i'm happy to share all of that with you all um i am going to be taking this from the client side um of um and also hiring and looking for more of a general research type of individual um a generalist um versus from the vendor uh from the vendor side um because i think that you would look for some different things um i'm sharing you know my perspectives um as a corporate researcher um hiring more of a generalist and you know for many of you you may be looking for different things you know such as looking for more um specific specialists for very specialized types of roles but i'll be looking at this from the generalized basis so here's what we're going to talk about first we'll talk about why is it so important to find these fantastic research rock stars what are some of the benefits secondly um we'll talk about what are the key dimensions or what are the gotta have so what what you have to find or need to find um and then um i'll give you my perspective when it comes to hiring a generalist what i believe is the most important dimension of all and then then we'll i'll give you more of my secrets in terms of higher um asking the right kinds of questions how to ask the questions um and and use behavioral interview techniques and then we'll also talk about um sourcing where are you going to find these fantastic um rockstar researchers and then lastly i'd love to cover any questions that you might have and then let's also just kind of talk about best practices that you've had on in finding um research rock stars um i'm i'm sharing just my perspective i'm sure you have lots of ideas as well so as i have here i think that research rockstars are worth they're worth their weight in gold and the reason why i say that is that they are handling some of the most strategic um questions for your firm there are also if you're hiring the right people they are also interacting with some of the senior executives in your farm and these positions people can really make a difference in these roles from an roi standpoint it can really cost your company a lot of money um in hiring the wrong people because then you have to go through the whole process again of sourcing hiring training and if they're the wrong person you have to you have to go through performance management to hopefully make them the right person and if it doesn't work out then you have even more time and money invested in terms of having to um having to go through you know some some unhappy situations of of having to um say goodbye to someone that that you've hired and worked with from an roi standpoint if you hire the right kind of person who is good at negotiating they can save your company thousands and thousands of dollars and it doesn't come naturally to everyone and we'll talk a little bit more um about that in in just a minute i'm also in looking for these internal consultants that are out there that that are asking the right kinds of questions they are not order takers they're consultants and these individuals also believe in constant continuous improvement they are always pushing the envelope and doing more and more um you know in the roles that they have and then on lastly why these research rock stars are worth their their weight in gold is that uh is that they're natural storytellers they will go throughout the entire organization and leverage the insights not just simply for the for the research project sponsor but they can share those findings all throughout the organization always keep in mind that your research team is representing you and they are the ones that can also lend a tremendous amount of credibility to you as well as to your team they're your brand so here are some of my um my best kept secrets when it comes to hiring superstars um and uh and again these are this is what's worked for me with um with hiring more generalists on the client side and that is number one these are those key these are the key dimensions i look for ability to handle stress ability to work in a fast-paced work environment when you think about it researchers really want to help people they want to help their business partners succeed and answer their business questions um and you you are trying to help a lot of people and that can be kind of stressful um it can be stressful because of deadlines that you deal with it can be stressful because there are times when you don't have enough money you need to negotiate sometimes you have to work some of those longer hours in order to deliver on time and the good news is is that my vendor partners do deliver on time so i don't have to do their job so that's a great thing but there are some times where that's happened to me before in the past also um as far as handling stress sometimes you need to present to hundreds of people um in some cases even more than that um and that can be a little stressful particularly if you have to deliver bad news um and that's sometimes a job that we have to do all right the ability to notice trends and patterns um and to actually see um you know see some of those and see some of the the trends that you see in qualitative interviews um as well having that strong attention to detail and strong analytical mind the reason why i brought this up and you know this is something that it's a dimension it's a key dimension that not everybody in the world possesses um in terms of a superpower on being able to see those natural those trends naturally and it's a it's a fantastic um dimension to have a strong desire to help business partners and also the company succeed these are people who really care um whether or not business partners get their their their questions answered as well as helping the company achieve their strategic objectives and then there's also part of this and caring about your business partners is the ability to formulate strong relationships with your business partners and develop trust that's very i think a very very important key dimension uh and and part of that is that i didn't mention is also this team this team [Music] player type of individual the naturally inquisitive and strategic thinker that you know is constantly asking the question well what if or what about um what about what happens next after what happens next um having the ability to think this way i was lucky enough to have two academics um for parents my mother was a psychologist and she taught me early on just the value of getting to know other people asking questions to find out what makes them tick what makes them unique what makes them special um and so that's that's why why this job was actually a pretty good fit for me then i've also got the ability to juggle multiple projects and tasks at once uh as well as being flexible and and that's the ability to come up with plan a b c d and sometimes e um you know at the um at a moment's notice and the reason why i bring that up is that so often we will be going a hundred miles an hour one way and then we'll stop turn around and half on a dawn and have to go 100 miles an hour um the exact opposite direction it takes a really special person to handle um and to be flexible um in these types of situations as well as to be that creative problem solver and coming up with new ways of doing things and sometimes you know it's trying out new things um like new methodologies having the ability to tell a story with um with data or to tell the story or the voice of the customer is really really i think important um also you know the ability to do data visualization um so it's one thing to collect great data or great insights but you need to be able to communicate it throughout your organization and i love this one which is really being passionate um about about representing the voice of the customer within your organization and these are our people who really care uh about the customer these are people who really care about solving your customers problems issues giving them the best products and services that your company can possibly provide and this again is something that not everyone possesses but i've found that the people that stick the best in these jobs and are your super super researcher superman super women are are people who genuinely care um about the customer and are passionate about that and uh are empathetic listeners who really listen um to what the customer is trying to convey and can hear some of those fine-tuned kinds of messages um that are present and being an empathetic listener is so so very important being able to walk in your customers shoes i love natural negotiators and you know this is where we are all out there and particularly these days of trying to do so much more with so little or do more with less these days with reduced budgets um and such so having the right kind of person that is a natural negotiator i think is is really important when you're negotiating vendor contracts and some of them are quite large we take this very seriously in my organization because we work so hard to get the best value and if any of my vendor partners are present now they know that this is true that we we take this very seriously about spending on any of our customers money we want to get the very finest and very best value for our customers money and then um it's this capability um to take a truly objective um point of view and that's again um you know somewhat of that empathetic kind of view um but you know it's putting yourself you know in the in the respondent's shoes um and also kind of turning off all of that other noise that's going on in the background or additional additional points of view or preconceived notions but and clearing the decks and being super objective so those are the superpowers that i look for so what would be that gotta have kind of key dimension that i look for um and and what that is is the ability to think um from both sides of the brain again it's rare it's hard to find very hard to find but it can be done again when i hire a market research rockstar this is something that i look for and when i first started out 27 years ago you were either quantitative or you were qualitative never did the two mix these days in order to be a great researcher you need i believe to be able to think from both sides of the brain you can see here on the left side of the brain you have someone who can think in more sequential and see things in more sequential um manner versus on the right side of the brain someone who is more intuitive and when you're using and can think from both sides of the brain it's phenomenal you know you can not only see those data patterns but you also can understand understand why why you're seeing those those data patterns and then um as as we get into this um there are you know we i gave you all those different all those different um you know dimensions and here's this gotta have dimension of what i look for um too often we get distracted by all of this this other kind of nice to have um dimensions or experiences or knowledge that the candidate might have and you know and too often we and i am so guilty of this where um i'll fall into the trap of like going oh yeah they've got product knowledge and how important that is i wouldn't have to train them product knowledge um but unless they have the gotta haves and the key dimensions of of what's out there product knowledge isn't quite so important you can teach product knowledge but if they don't have the ability to be empathetic a great team member you know are are not able to see you know trends and data and really be and really care about about customers and about business partners and answering your business partners questions then product knowledge doesn't matter quite so much so how do you determine whether or not a candidate can actually have these great superpowers that we're looking for and i like to use behavioral interviewing and i'm sure a lot of you all out there do as well so it's nothing new for you but behavioral interviewing for those who aren't currently using it you know this allows us um to have them give very specific examples of that key dimension that you're looking for where they have actually in the past demonstrated that particular key dimension or very specific behavior versus someone who comes in and tells you what they think that they would do in this type of situation it helps some people are great interviewers um and you really want good interviewers from a researcher of course but some people are really better at it than others and um if you're looking for very specific inner looking for very specific behaviors and very specific dimensions the behavioral interviewing um is a great technique there are three three key reasons i think there is one it it forces you to focus on what matters those key dimensions number two it can also help at the end of the day when you are reviewing all the different candidates in a debriefing or a panel situation you are focusing on the right behaviors and the in the right dimensions and everyone is focused on the right dimensions and you can compare candidates better and then number three the way that i like to do behavioral interviewing is to also be very realistic and upfront about what the job is like and you can you'll see here when i um when i read some of these questions it can really help the um can help the the candidate walk into the job with their eyes wide open and know what to expect when they get there so here's here's here just three of my favorite questions so under the key dimension of flexibility problem solving and handling stress i like to say something like this from this candidate just to let you know this job can be you know rather stressful when things don't go according to plan and things don't go according to plan all the time but you know that um can you think back on a situation or a project that you were leading when things didn't go as planned how did you handle it and what what did you do how did it turn out key dimension team member to be successful on this team you need to be a great team member we collaborate a lot we help each other all the time teamwork is really important um in this role when if you had to put the needs of the team ahead of your own and what was that situation like what role would you play there's the next one key dimension thinking on both sides of the brain recognizing data patterns being naturally inquisitive many of our projects are multimodal qualitative and quantitative can you share a time where you dug into the data and provided the what and then looked for some of those messages uh and asked the additional questions to provide the why what was the problem that you were solving how did you solve it how did it turn out so now we've talked about why it's important we've talked about identifying those key those um those key dimensions we've talked about how to ask the right questions to make sure that you've got people that that demonstrate those key dimensions now let's talk about where you find these research rock stars so you can always do it the traditional way you can do job postings you can have job postings internally you can host them on indeed and monster and all the other places um like glassdoor you um you can also post them on industry and associations uh or in their newsletters like the insights association and i love there are two that i love one is internships and contract workers and what do you all think they have in common what they have in common is both you and the and the potential candidate get to try the job out and try each other out and um the nice thing about internships is we've got so many um new and new entrants into the market research industry who are graduating with degrees in market research and um hiring these interns where they have an opportunity to learn from you you also have an opportunity to see if they would be a good fit for your organization recruiters and we have lots of recruiters in our industry who specialize in in our industry they know what it takes to be a research rock star and they have a lot of connections i love recruiters too team referrals um so your people uh know a lot of people in our industry and our industry is not all that big uh but your people know people um you know within within the industry also um locally so um they have an opportunity to bring on superstars um or their their good friends contract workers i had mentioned already and one of my best favorite people that i ever hired um was a contract worker and if he's on the line he knows who he is and what happened there is i had gone through three contractors um had had just the worst time until this one particular contract worker walked in the door and um and then as soon as i possibly could um i was able to advocate and and hire them for a full-time position and what was so beautiful is they had done such a great job um you know for me and also for our business partners my business partners were out there advocating to hire him which was fantastic all right and then internal business partners and your own network so on the internal business partner side um i have lots of friends who who have been advocating for this lately some of my contacts who and actually have heard others speak at conferences about the importance of sourcing market research rockstars from your business partners if they've got the right dimensions guess what they also bring with them they also bring with them the point of view of their job as well as their experiences and their knowledge and their networks it's a wonderful thing um to find um rock stars from your business partners and you know they've been working with you you've been working with them um you already know what their styles are and you can also identify whether or not they've got those key dimensions because you've observed it and then your own network you know this is some people think that it is not their job as them as the hiring manager um to go out and recruit that's recruiting that's hr um that's their job but in actuality i believe that you are responsible for the success of your team and in finding the very finest people and you know a lot of people you know in in our industry pick up the phone call your friends hey do you know anyone um you know who's you would fit this kind of role and then call them yourself everybody absolutely they just absolutely love being recruited so it's a tremendous and the worst thing they can say is no and then your vendor partners i love my vendor partners if i had jobs available right now and by the way i have stolen vendor partners before from my vendors for jobs i would steal some of mine right now and if they're um if they're on the line they know exactly who they are i would um i would poach my vendor partners um they've had an opportunity to observe you they know what your challenges are they know what your organization you know deals with and you also have an opportunity and have had the opportunity to observe them so i hope that you have found this this helpful for you on you know in in sharing some of my tips tricks of what what i've learned over the last 27 years these are just simply my suggestions my ideas i know you all also have lots of ideas as well so what kinds of questions would you all have out there can you all help me with those hey bam um so would you like to go through questions first or do you want to read the prompts that uh their answers to the prompts that you provided well let's hear what that let's listen to the prompts all righty so i'm gonna go from zoom to youtube to twitter uh so if you guys don't hear your uh answer quite yet be patient i'm going from platform to platform um first we have a response on zoom from a jonathan clancy he says in regards to what key dimensions do you look for when hiring research team members he says comfort with quant and qual data comfort moderating familia familia oh my gosh familiarity oh my gosh methodology um analysis attention to detail curiosity humility and finally can they get it done quickly that's you know just to respond to that one quickly um particularly the last comment and you know jonathan had a lot of the same ideas as what we shared here and i didn't even talk about the ability to get it done quickly because you're not helping a lot of business partners if you're moving too slow or you are too methodical or you are only helping or working on one project one project at a time in my role you know i'm trying to help people across my my organization answer their questions and i don't have the luxury of working on just one thing or working very very slowly so good point jonathan all right and then we have a comment from uh a dwayne third if i mispronounce her name dwyane wade jr um for telling stories with data slash findings um how does the ability to use data visual oh sorry this is a question with telling stories with daddy's flash findings how does the ability to use data visualization tools i.e uh tableau etc weigh on your uh research team recruitment so so that's that's a question um and and being able um and one thing i i love when when somebody a candidate comes in and actually is able uh to share a research study that they conducted when they potentially um if um like just to give you an idea somebody we had a um someone who interviewed for a position internally it was an internal candidate who came in and showed examples of their work and and also shared with us very specific tools that they used so you can get an idea of what not instead of like what they would do what they actually have done so um anytime that that they can share past studies or examples where possible sometimes you can of course because of confidentiality issues but sometimes sometimes you can when you have also have permission alrighty um one moment refreshing twitter anything looks like we don't have any responses there but we do have another response to prompt ii um sharing success stories that you have about finding researchers through non-traditional means right and then it looks like the same person also went back and answered point one so for prop one what key dimensions do you look for cindy tran says storytelling is important in interviews i give situation data and ask how they pull the story together what steps they would take and then for prompt two she says i have a degree in cognitive neural psych companies didn't see how i could do the job don't dismiss someone just because of their background i may have talents that they may have talents that make for a superior employee yep that's you know having that degree having the um you know having that that real uh depth and experience and expertise is fantastic we had just on our team of 10 we have we have at least two phds um at least i don't know how many green belts we have at least two green belts and at at least one black belt so you know a lot of that that expertise um really pays off we just got another question do you look for candidates oh this is from uh again i'm sorry if i mispronounce your name felicia trimboli do you look for candidates who have experience with diy tools oh yes um in my previous roles i have um in in my current role um not as much because we you know we actually don't have as much time in order in order to do the diy work um that i that i have had before in the past um so yeah so it's great um and that that's one place sometimes when you can you know you hire people from like the vendor partners i was telling you about they've done the work um and um and and that's that's great when they have that diy um skill all right but but it sounds like it's more like an extra thing that you don't necessarily look for right now in my current role um i don't look for it quite as much as what i have before in the past gotcha and it looks like that's all the questions that we have for now if anybody has any other questions feel free to go ahead and post them um or reach out on twitter linkedin with the hashtag qvic2012 um alrighty uh thank you pam so much for your time today this has been really insightful um not only from a hiring perspective but also as somebody who's more or less recent to this field uh this is kind of like a deep emotional checklist of things that i should strive i feel like i should strive for um in my new career i guess like it sounds like sierra i mean you've got um a lot of the right stuff you're asking all the great questions so thank you all today i really enjoyed sharing my ideas with you um if you have any additional questions you can always reach out to me on linkedin it's pamela nelson and i'm with tiaa thank you have a good rest of your day youtube bye
