Mind the Gap: Elevating Your Research Presentations

leading us all today though is going to be Heidi kerian she is senior scientist over at the consumer Foods team at JM smucker Heidi is got a pretty you know in in addition to a solid resume she's got the illustrious distinction of being a two-time now presenter at excellent research virtual insights conference um so she she joined some pretty pretty Elite company there um but in a different role different industry different company and different perspectives to share so very much looking forward to Heidi's presentation it's going to be on mind the gap elevating your research and I think that's going to be it for me I'm going to get out of the way Heidi let you do your thing I will Circle back uh toward the end of the presentation lead any q a and that you have that at Heidi thank you Bill um I want to add one more ground rule we're also at the mercy of our pets I have a golden doodle puppy here so hopefully he'll be on his best behavior um let's see does that look right okay all right well thank you Bill for the invitation I did present um with accelerant research um a year and a half ago I think it was with a previous position previous role different industry altogether so this is not a repeat um this is actually a new presentation um based on my experience um just being in the industry and also a researcher for for several years now so before I start I want to talk a little bit about my background um like a lot of consumer researchers I have a background in life sciences my bachelor's degree was in biology I spent a lot of time studying plants and actually snails and I spent a summer at Nasa focusing on growing wheat in space but then I had to get a real job so my first shot out of college was as an r d chemist with the candle science group of Bath and Body Works which is near Columbus Ohio and that was a great first job it was a nice blend of kind of technical skills and a little bit of dark magic it was candles travel to Guatemala quite a bit which was where our primary inventor was um great job but one thing that I saw in this first job um was a focus group and from that point on that's what I figured out I wanted to do I was trying to figure out for a couple years how do I get from where I am in r d to Consumer research So eventually I pursued my MBA and my first job after my MBA was with a company called Nottingham spark I'm not a ham spark is a product design firm industrial design firm located in Cleveland Heights Ohio it's large for design firm it's about 65 people but still a pretty small company but one thing we did have was an in-house focus group facility so from day one I was lucky enough to be a moderator and that job I'll talk about in a moment was just a lot of learning everything from the ground up we did little bit of moderator training eventually but so much of the job was just figuring out how to approach was a rational approach to accomplish this business objective we were a small Scrappy company so a lot of what I did there was very much learned on the job I eventually left Nottingham spur and started with sure tape Technologies which is an adhesives company better known as the duct tape company and I was in an innovation role there but and I was actually in r d as well um and pretty early on I started suggesting and finally got some funds to do some work where we're actually answering r d questions using consumer research skills so that evolved eventually to more of an insight's role and then about a year and a half ago I left sure tape and started with the JM smucker company as a senior scientist in Products Research now I never heard of Products Research before maybe two years ago but what it is it's a consumer research function that's embedded in r d so everything we do is very much focused on product and we actually have three divisions on Foods pet and coffee but I'm in the food divisions the one that's soccer is probably best known for at least by the name so I focus a lot on peanut butter and jelly and actually my first year I focused on GIF just peanut butter primarily and now I'm focusing a little bit more on Uncrustables so as far as my consumer research background like I mentioned very Scrappy Roots I consider myself to be self-taught in a lot of ways um when I was with the consumer research or with the um product design company a lot of the focus groups that we were doing was more to create stimuli for our designers for them to you know see problems firsthand to understand the user experience and understand opportunities where we could address some of those problems and these people are having so in a lot of ways the focus groups weren't really for research purposes as much as stimuli for them to go figure out opportunities to solve I am a qualitative researcher at heart my favorite thing to do is to be one-on-one with consumers I've done a lot of 101 um ethnographic in home in business research whether it's around the dining room table or on the couch or on a farm which is for a lot of my um duct tape experience led me to but I do really enjoy being one-on-one with the consumer and I love taking really messy info which is the kind of the core thing that happens in qualitative research and trying to make sense of it my Quant experience is a pretty similar story um self-taught in a lot of ways using DIY platforms also had access to some stat software so um but really learned my Quant skills from the from the ground up and I really love taking Quant and qual and blending them to tell a more Rich cohesive story so as I mentioned a lot of my background is with DIY platforms especially um Quant but also I've done a bit of moderating with Paul board and recollective as well sorry I'm getting a lot of fun coming in here um I'm gonna go wait a minute we're in Cleveland so anyways um I've learned though since I've been in the corporate world that using DIY platforms can be a little controversial um you're not spending a whole lot of money but you are spending a lot of your time it's almost an invisible cost that the company doesn't really see but then the harder part of it is how do you tell your message in a convincing way and that's one thing that I used to struggle with a lot I've gotten better but that's what I want to talk about today actually is the gap mind the gap the gap between doing research and presenting research and this doesn't have to be consumer research specific I think a lot of these messages actually can extend to r d or extend to anytime you have a message and how do you convey that message convincingly um I'm not actually doing a lot of my own research now with um with the smoker company I actually um work a lot with outside vendors and suppliers um but we do have an in-house sensory panel which is a great resource to have and they are giving me a lot of um Excel sheets so I do do a little bit of messing with the data but a lot of what I'm doing just for transparency is much more working with research Partners at this point but this used to be me in the past I would spend hours upon hours you know writing my surveys and writing my discussion guides and making sure that my skip logic was right and everything made sense and cobbling together images if I needed to show Concepts and writing statements and then I'd move into the analysis and I'd spend so much time trying to put together a story and look at how different segments compared and how everyone's answering certain questions different ways and then I get to the point where I be presenting my research and sometimes it went really well other times it didn't go so well and I felt like my message really wasn't getting through and it was super frustrating and I spent a lot of time thinking about you know why what what is it that I was doing maybe not wrong but what could I be doing better and so that's what I want to share with you today some things that I have found that has made has helped me gain credibility um in in my field and allow me to um present better I think that I used to at least and um I think it's just some messages that can help you as well so first of all these are the three things I'm going to talk about Aesthetics they matter a lot I'm going to talk about learning to make simple impactful visuals to share your data and insights um number two understanding it matters a lot as well I'm learning to convey Clarity with your slides by using storytelling techniques and number three feedback you need to embrace the importance of feedback to develop more audience-centric presentations so first of all and it's intentional that's first Aesthetics Aesthetics matter a lot this is a really big one and while this is this by no means is what separated me from our Full Service Partners I think it actually is a big part of when it comes to the presentation when your slides don't look like that they're very professional you're losing credibility right there so of course our full service vendors have a lot more um tools to work with a lot more people they have graphic design resources a lot of times it's not even a fair fight but I've learned that Aesthetics matter more than I used to think I used to think that my boss didn't really want to pay me to spend time you know just doing imagery on my slides they just wanted the content but I was I was I've learned that I was wrong about that I used to present slides that look like this in my presentations um just to be clear I'm not talking this is not JM sucker data I'm talking about we're not talking about peanut butter and jelly this actually is about some odor disposal products that I worked on in the past so I love messing with data and looking at how my different segments answered certain questions and I love setting things on an index and seeing you know which you know which where the data popped and where 20 liked it more 20 liked it less but I've learned that this is not a good way to present data isn't this better I think if you would have stared at the previous slide long enough you probably would have gotten to this point but I found that this is a much more impactful way to show my major points um I'm still the message is kind of the same but it's much more concise and I've pulled out what really matters what I really want to convey so I'm showing a big number 91 I'm showing that very boldly 91 percent of consumers are interested in or sorry or have these Odor Control issues and there's certain segments parents Millennials homeowners and renters that over index that actually would have more interest in products that meet this need so I found that it's much more I can get the point across much more clearly by pulling out and using large graphics and using pictures to convey with a major messages are I'm going to go through four different um ways of showing data that I are kind of my go-to's that I found to be helpful so first of all relationships I want to talk about how I've shown relationships in different ways and I would encourage you to move out of excel if you can Excel is an awesome tool to use but when it comes to showing data you're kind of limited so on the left hand side here I have a a bubble chart where I'm showing some mutual information but I'm showing it all in one graphic that's what I like about it so I'm talking about people that um buy both regular and Specialty Products and I'm trying to convey the point that it's not just one user group that's buying Specialty Products there's actually a lot of crossover as you can see um of all the regular products um almost 10 so 9.1 percent of people are buying both regular and Specialty and a very small sliver of the pie is actually buying only um Specialty Products so this can be part of a very compelling story about how things need to appeal to different user groups you can get a lot of places with this but what I like is I'm showing it all in one visual I could have shown this in a series of pie charts um but I really like how I can show with one way one bold um graphic here on the right hand side I'm not saying you can't make an index you can show indices but you just need to pull out what's really important and what I like about this table here it says color coded you have regular buyers of blue specialty buyers in black and then total buyers in green and you have arrows that um are color coded and show where the data is more significant or where it over indexes um I'm not really showing under indexing here but I would show it upside down if if something was under indexing so you can show an index you can just simplify it and show only what's important next found visuals I like to find visuals and map out whatever my data is telling me so for this I'm showing that a lot of people if this is um closer to 2020 where you had homebound consumers I'm sure remember those days but um I'm talking about how homebound consumers were noticing more household odors and they're noticing them in a lot of places in their homes and I could have shown this in a bulleted list but I found it was much more impactful to map it out and show all the different places in a home where people are experiencing this problem and I found that this was a much more impactful way to show a much more impactful way to set up the solution than just showing a bulleted list of all the different places people are experiencing odor next metaphors I really like metaphors although I'm not sure I'm very good at them I love when people talk to me in metaphors and I like to use metaphors if I can to show show processes or show um data somehow so I'm talking about a consumer Journey map here and I'm using a slide to convey how the journey happens so for organization knowing where to start is difficult you're starting up that slide and it can be difficult and it's an uphill battle having a then you get a plan you're starting to build momentum you're heading up the slide you're making some progress but you're still having challenges finding time is challenging and then you're almost there the uphill climb is almost over and then you've reached the peak you're at your maximum point of organization and that feels great because you're at the top and then you um start you you kind of fall into the norm and it's easy to keep organized at first but eventually the slide happens and at a certain point you're back to where you started you probably feel really disappointed with your ability to keep organized so by using a slide I feel like I can convey kind of the emotion involved in this person's struggle with organization a little bit better it conjures up a little bit of nostalgia it feels like you could actually relate to this journey a little bit more because I'm using a metaphor and then the final technique that I want to talk about is trying to make sense out of all of your open end responses you know whenever you're writing a survey you never want to skip the why questions you always want to ask why and give consumers an opportunity to give you open and responses but then what do you do what do you do with all of those hundreds or thousands of responses um I have found that making word clouds is sort of effective but I find it really hard to present and know what words to pull out and how do you present to a word cloud so what I've tried to do is assess waiting two on my word cloud so specifically the question here was you know which package or graphic treatment resonates with consumers more is it one that's more modern looking which is I'm showing on the left hand side here or something that cues environmentally friendliness a little bit better which I'm showing on the right side here and what I found is 40 of people they answer this question um liked the modern fresh and modern look a little better and then 60 like the environmentally friendly look better so I put out a couple quotes to kind of give color to what specific specifically they were saying and then I made word clouds a show some of the keywords they were using but I think the most impactful part is the the visual in the middle the the the pie chart the donut chart that um shows how many and What proportion um said either thing so I don't know that this is the perfect solution to open is I'm actually interested in hearing how other people have handled open-ended responses um this is one way that I found that it makes it a little bit more manageable to talk about what people were saying in open ends so you need to learn to make simple impactful visuals one thing that I've found really helpful is to use the appendix heavily in your presentations one thing that I'll do is have only a couple slides in these five to seven slides is my presentation but then all my data charts and even like those um that appendix or that um index chart that I showed before will land on my appendix so I have all the details there if somebody asked a specific question but I'm really not planning to present it at least every time another thing that um happens when you're in a corporate corporate research role is that a lot of times you're not actually doing the research like kind of my current situation but I'm communicating a lot of research that other people are doing whether it's internal Partners or it's um suppliers I'm communicating that at different levels within my organization so it's helpful to from the beginning start with two different versions of the presentation I like to think of this as scuba diving and snorkeling so for your technical team like I'm in r d so I'm presenting to the technical team a lot and they love the details but I go scuba diving with them and they really want to be in the weeds and see how I even got to this point in this conclusion they want to see all the backup and substantiation so I I um keep the scuba diving version for them but then when I'm presenting out to the the leadership team I have these snorkel statements so I I consider a higher level presentation that has only really the essential takeaways from what the research intended to find and what we're going to do with it specifically and those snorkel statements seem to resonate really well with the leadership team so from the beginning plan just plan to do two different presentations and finally I have some resources that I that I use to share so I mentioned already stepping outside of Excel and these are some resources that I have found over the years that have been really really helpful almost crucial anymore to designing presentations first of all canva um it's probably obvious at this point I meant to say in the beginning but this is not a graphic design presentation this is just a researcher trying to dabble in making things look better and I feel because of that I feel like canva was created for me um for years I was looking for something that I could make visuals um even though I have no graphic design skills at all I don't know how to use illustrator and then I came across canva and this is a great tool because it's very approachable it's very simplistic it was actually created for people and teachers mainly that were making yearbooks in Australia and they needed a user-friendly way to lay out pictures and fonts so that's the origin story of canva and it's grown to be a pretty helpful tool for any kind of graphic design um next diagrammer by Duarte I can't even believe this resource is free it's actually really great check it out it is really great at organizing information and flow charts and showing flow charts in different ways um you may or may not download their visuals but it's helpful to look just to get ideas of how you should be laying out a process or how does different things relate to each other next remove.bg this is a website that I go to and use probably once a day this is a really really easy way to remove a background from a picture which I do a surprisingly number of times every week almost on a daily basis so check it out um next flat icon is a great resource for iconography I know I'm always trying to find like a very simple line drawing to show whether it's the people or a house or dollar sign or anything um and five has been a really good resource for that Shutterstock is good to find any photo really that anyone has ever taken professionally you can buy it at Shutterstock um there's also some some free resources there um but that's a great place to find high-res photos for a presentation and the final two here Pixar implies that my kids actually use these to make beans but I found the really easy ways to to edit photos I use them as well all right so we've already established that Aesthetics are important now let's move on to understanding so communication is a two-way street if the info isn't being received well then um it's not your message is not effective no matter how beautiful your slides are so the first thing you need to consider is your delivery Style um there's so many options available but you have to know from the front end is this going to be an in-person presentation or is it going to be a virtual presentation or Worse these days hybrid and you need to plan for that from the beginning as far as delivery Style I'm not going to tell you what the best delivery style is to use because you know your corporate your corporate environment much better than I do but you have a lot of different options when it comes to how you're going to deliver your message um can you have an interactive message where you're facilitating and you're presenting some information but then you're getting to the results to the end part with your audience um doesn't need to be more casual where it's planned you definitely have content planned but you're delivering it pretty um casually and informally or does it need to be more formal kind of like this where I have a sequence of slides that I plan to go through every single slide in order and I have a script that I'm sort of following Loosely but it's a more formal presentation or is it it's had to be canned where the slides live without you I find this to be the most challenging actually where you're not there to give context so everything that you want your audience to take away from your slides has to be on the slide so think about these on the front end it'll make your job much easier when it comes to meeting the expectations with your presentation the next thing I want to talk about is a storytelling technique um log line called log lines and what a log line is it's a one sentence summary that's used in the movies um the producer usually writes it and it's a one sentence synopsis of what the entire movie is about and it's pretty important it has to capture the entire essence of the movie the setting the major characters the conflict and is it important it's an important um thing too because it has to they actually use the log line to promote the movie and it needs to be compelling so we're going to look at a couple of these two unlikely star-crossed lovers fall in love aboard the world's largest ship and struggle to keep their relationship afloat as the doomed ship sinks into the Atlantic any guesses no not Ocean's Eleven this is Titanic of course so um one more here a former fighter pilot attempts to train a crew of top-notch young Pilots to perform a dangerous or a daring Mission but knows that he's the only one with the best chance of surviving this dangerous feat any guesses it's the new Top Gun movie Maverick so I think you can appreciate what a log line is you have to learn to be very efficient with your words and tell just enough to pique interest but not not too much you want to overwhelm people with information so I would encourage you to think about the principle of log lines but constructing every slide you don't have to write your log line on the slide it doesn't have to be the topic of your slide but you should have a reason a concise reason for why you're including every slide in your deck foreign so if you look at this slide what was what is the log line here it's a question there's actually not one I'm showing you way too much information it's hard to really deduce where you're going or what what the key learning is on the slide but if you look at this slide you can stare at this for between 7 and 10 seconds and you know the gist of it you can see that a lot of consumers have a need they are they're struggling with odor issues and there are certain consumer segments that a solution would resonate with more than others so I encourage you to think about the log line principle and make sure you have a compelling reason to put every slide in your deck another technique that I found helpful is to record yourself might be one of the most intimidating symbols you'll ever see I mean who really likes to be recorded probably not many of us but in the old days I when I was a moderator I would often have maybe you know two or three different topics that I was moderating focus groups for in a week and I would have so much information and I had a really hard time just even knowing where to start the report and I also had way too many hours in the car so I started carrying a little handheld recorder with me I mean now I could have easily use an app on my phone but the time I had a handheld recorder that I kept in my car and what I would do is I would hit record and suddenly I would feel like I was in presentation mode I could quickly get to those three to five key learnings that I wanted to tell the client and that would allow me to know where to even start writing my report at the end so it's actually a really funny thing that happens and I can't promise all the work for everyone but for me this is kind of a little mind game that I would play with myself and it really helped me know where to start by getting to the end so I encourage you to try it and also I never actually went back and listened in these recordings it was more just to help the thoughts crystallize in my mind and like I said know where to start so as far as understanding think about what type of delivery do you need think about the log line principle for every single slide in your presentation and if you can't tell me what the law line is and you don't need that slide in your presentation and finally think about where you want to be at the end to even know where to begin and I do this by recording which has been super helpful now let's move on to the last chapter here the importance of feedback first of all think about how you are growing your business and I don't mean Top Line Sales I work for an eight billion dollar company so it's pretty hard for me to look at the work I'm doing now and see that reflected in the Top Line maybe three to five years from now I could see some of the work I'm doing show up at some level but I'm not talking about Top Line I'm talking about you yourself and how you're growing your business your own personal business um a lot of times in consumer research rules we are more like internal Consultants so we're trying to inject ourselves into different processes and you can look at the different research that you're doing and see how much impact you're having um one indicator that I have found that kind of shows me how I'm growing my business is how many people are coming to me to ask for help um if nobody is then nobody must be seeing much value in in the research and the work that I'm doing but over time I found that more and more people come to me with challenges and they're not dictating to me how to do their research any more than maybe they used to but they're coming to me with the problem and I can help them craft what the objective is and recommend what is the best approach and then execute as well another way to look at the software side of how you're growing your business is how is your research being used are you seeing your research show up in other people's slides and what kind of decisions are being made with the research you're doing there was a time when I was answering like very very technical questions like should we include a screw in this package and if we do what does that mean um very very tactical important at the time of course for what the Clans are trying to make but super tactical but eventually my research became more useful in more strategic decisions like should we enter a new market now what do we currently have and what what would resonate with consumers if we were going to go this Direction versus this direction so I found that the research I was doing went from being very Tactical at least a larger portion being very tactical to more of it being more strategic so I grew up in the country actually not too far from where I live now um in eastern Ohio and I remember growing up hearing Farmers talk about how you can tell the weather by how the cows act and I never really cared at the time and I never really knew what they were talking about but recently I've heard why and what they're talking about when a storm's coming cows try to run from the storm they try to get as far as they can away from the storm as far as they can go in the pasture in contrast Buffalo actually run to the storm they face a storm head on so what happens is cows end up getting very very wet and stay wet for a long time whereas buffaloes since they face the storm head on they don't really get very wet at all so I like to think about receiving feedback in these terms and am I more of a cow and shy away from feedback or am I more like a buffalo it faces head-on I can't say I'm one of the other I'm probably a little bit in between but I would encourage you to think of this and be more like a buffalo feedback isn't always pleasant but it's a good way it's a great it's the best way we have to learn about what message is getting through and what messages aren't getting through so well so I encourage you to seek out feedback any chance you get and that can be approaching somebody after the meeting someone that you trust and ask them if your key points got through or ask them you know how do you think I showed up in the room today ask for feedback um you can do it more formal and send out if it's a large meeting send a survey afterwards I've done that once or twice maybe um I I advocate for actually more of a human approach where talking to someone that you trust but I encourage you to seek out feedback any chance you can so I don't love this picture it's a little uncomfortable but what it is is me standing up in front of a crowd and delivering my message and as researchers we kind of have a unique opportunity where when we have research research we have a chance to present it and I encourage you to take that chance any anytime you get it um I know it's painless to email a deck and ask for questions I do it too once in a while but I've learned that it's much more you have much more control over the message and you can make sure people are receiving the message the way you intended it to when you're presenting it live so I would recommend that you never surrender your platform if you can present it live and you can be the one to speak to your message and your research take it and do it and I and none of this is really easy that I'm talking about today but I promise you the only way getting better at presenting um happens is by is through practice so I encourage you to try new techniques and take your the opportunity to present whenever you can so finally as far as feedback just to recap think about how you're growing your business and think about the impact your research is having seek feedback out ask people what's coming through what's getting lost how did that you know how how did my message how do you think it was received in the room today and finally Never Surrender Your platform so I hope that these three core messages have come through the importance of Aesthetics understanding and feedback is you need to learn to make simple impactful visuals which is I think is the best way to share your insights and data you need to learn to convey Clarity with your slides by using storytelling techniques like I was talking about Vlog lines and even with recording yourself and then finally you need to embrace the importance of feedback so you can develop more audience-centric presentations so thank you this has been fun um really appreciate you joining me here today and I'm happy to answer any questions or even hear some testimonials of other ways people have gained experience and increased their credibility through how they're presenting and or other ways in general how you're um how you've gained credibility in your organization so thank you all right thanks a lot Heidi um it looks like we have a few questions that have already come through while you were speaking uh anybody else has questions feel free to throw those into the Q a or the chat we'll keep an eye on those um but let's start with Stephanie uh she asks how do you balance being Broad and high level with key takeaways and also giving teams enough information that they may identify nuggets that kick off an inspiration that you didn't even know might Inspire new ideas or Solutions that for sure is a challenge it's hard when you're trying to be the one to deliver the message and you don't necessarily know what's important to every single person that's going to ever you know receive this research so I guess I would just encourage you to you know keep all the information in the appendix so when questions come up you can refer back to it I don't know I mean it's not I'm sure all of us have times when we've prepared to report there's so much more one to put into it but we're time constrained and so we put only in it what we think we really need to get through the day or get to that one decision point but you have so much more information so I recommend just I mean trying to think through what what will be crucial and document it somewhere even if it's not in your presentation um and just keep it at some level so you can refer back to it in the future so that's probably not a great answer but I acknowledge that being a really difficult Challenge and I'd also point back to the idea of just making two different presentations um one that is super high level and addresses that decision you're trying to make and then also one that is more on the leads and it can invite more questions and invite more um more conversation you can always dig later and find more or put more do more analysis on the back end as long as people know what you're what you even have this is the whole scuba diving versus snorkeling idea right it is yes or kiddie pool as well if we're inviting the Ad Agency oh I didn't say that I'm just kidding all right uh let's see Geralyn asks uh what tools are you using to analyze and present open ends any tools that leverage AI or machine learning that you would recommend I'm not using anything yet but I am very very interested I'm hoping to actually kick off our first AI research project in the next few weeks here I find it to be so fascinating and I was talking to somebody this week about how they were exploring something new a new category that didn't even know our new product they didn't even know what questions people would ask so they left it super open-ended and used machine learning or natural language processing probably the same thing um to get to the theme so they could then craft the discussion guide with after they've done that initial um initial open-ended exploration so I'm not using anything but I'm very interested in this category so I'd be interested to hear if anybody has any recommendations on something I've also had some people come to me and say they can take open ends from research we've already done and um analyze that so I'm interested in doing it haven't kicked off anything yet let's see Lisa asks um excuse me curious if you or Smuckers have a system to help research live on in the organization so that others can use and repeat efforts a repository of research for others to refine and modern um because of the question I'm sure you probably have the same challenge where it's a big company and people come in and out of roles pretty frequently and it's really a challenge and we have SharePoint but unless you know how that previous person really thought and kept their files organized it's hard it's kind of hard to follow the paper trail there the digital paper trail even one thing I have seen though our insights Partners do this Within smucker they create what they call a knowledge um estate is basically a PowerPoint slide and they have like peanut butter and they have like all the different studies listed out it's just simple it's like a and u and here's the link and then like segmentation here's the link and they'll have the year so it's probably just the year the like the type of the study and the link and so in one PowerPoint slide you have like years and years and years of research had access to it at least so it's nice because you can look at it and see what exactly exists and when was the last a and u because they're always way too long ago um for example but that's a nice way I found it's kind of a it feels like kind of a low-tech solution where you're just using a slide to to put in links but I found that's pretty effective to at least know what it is we have and kind of keep the catalog there better than searching through someone's um SharePoint leader all right anything else yeah any other questions rolling in for Heidi we've got a few more minutes if we need it I will comment on one more thing that wasn't my presentation but one thing I've been doing recently that we saw I think was our Like Chief marketing officer do recently um when you start a presentation it doesn't matter what group you're presenting to but it's super helpful to put one slide with key takeaways like here is where I'm taking you and here's what I want you to walk away with and it was hard for me to do that because I like to let the story unfold and keep my you know my insights or what I really learn it for the end but I found it's much more effective to kind of give a road map in the beginning and you feel like you're kind of dumbing it down because you're um you're showing where I'm going from the beginning but I think it's really helpful to at least keep people on track and keep people's attention because I know where we're going or not just Meandering too much so I think a key takeaway slide at the beginning which is like three bold points is has been super helpful foreign especially when presenting to Executives you I mean you never know where these conversations might go so if you don't hit hit the high points early um you're in danger of you know spending half an hour on the methodology so I had to never get into the actual meet of the president yes I feel like we've all been there yes not that I speak from experience all right that's the last check to see if any other questions have come in um I believe Heidi that is it okay well thank you and if anybody has further questions feel free to link with me on LinkedIn um happy to continue the conversation so thanks Bill I appreciate you doing it this was great um if I were gonna take about a 10 minute break uh feel free to grab a cup of coffee check up on your email um and we will be back at the top of the hour thanks Heidi all right thank you