The Guts and Glory of UX Research in Sports Media

go ahead and get started everybody uh welcome to the september installment of the accelerate research virtual insights conference uh to those who have joined us in prior months welcome back to those who are joining for the first time welcome and thanks uh quick history of of these conferences and what they're all about first my name is bill mcdowell i'm ceo at accelerate research we're gonna be your mcs for for today's festivities um just you know quick rundown of format intros and all that fun stuff and then i'm gonna get out of the way and let let our speakers do their thing which is what everybody's here for um but first so history of the ver the accelerate virtual insights conference uh it's actually all born out of uh shutdown last year um you may remember when this covet thing got started all the conferences were being canceled and not a lot of networking opportunities to be had so we just collectively at accelerant started reaching out to friends in the industry and kind of scraped together what was the first of at the time branded as the quarantine virtual insights conference uh we've since dropped the quarantine because that's depressing and nobody wants to keep going with that um so we're just going with accelerate virtual insights conference uh i'm noticing that some of you know our favorite conferences are now starting to get back to in person which is great encouraging uh wonderful but reality is that a lot of us are still still remote uh still not hitting the road so you know we're gonna keep rolling with these uh virtual conferences as an opportunity just to get together network uh talk a little insights shop uh listen to some some speakers who are experts in the field um talk about what they do on a daily basis um so we got a couple of ground rules that we operate by uh these are pretty easy peasy so no pressure um number one is you know we're at the mercy of tech right we've still got folks that are dispersed and in some cases logging in from home and there are i guess not just tech and bandwidth issues potentially but you got dogs barking deliveries being made you name it um you know it gets into point number two but that's just the be respectful aspect right you know we're all in this together um give everybody a break in terms of of what's going on um you know thankfully we've had some some good luck when it comes to tech and connectivity uh we're using zoom webinar we've got some folks they're accessing directly in the webinar itself others are are coming in via youtube obviously we're not all in the same you know presentation hall together so we've got to do our best to try to uh simulate the the networking aspect of conferences and get togethers the way we can do that is if you're in zoom you engage in the q a and the chat function um you know pose questions to the speakers uh talk amongst yourselves we've also got uh we're live streaming it on youtube as well so there's a chat over there also twitter linkedin uh just use the hashtag arvic and we'll just try to monitor as much of the chatter as we can um any questions that you have for the speakers we'll you know we'll monitor those keep track of them uh do q a sessions um either during presentations or directly after uh so what we've got today is a a really good lineup of speakers um let's get first to our new noon speaker that's going to be cliff kim from fender followed by dr charissa cliff from fruit of the loom um we're batting cleanup today is going to be jamie sherman from netflix and our first speaker of the day is going to be ligia gill from turner sports um talking about the guts and glory of ux research in sports media very excited about it you know i think that's enough of my intro spiel so i'm gonna get out of the way i'll come back and and lead some q a whenever whenever we're ready but i'm gonna disappear and let the girls do a thing thanks bill that was quite the intro i am happy to be um lead off batter for um you know for this installment of the uh um virtual insights conference here um and are you guys wait a second i just want to make sure that i am sharing the correct screen let's give this a try are you all seeing the cover of the presentation yes we are right on right on okay great i'll also have the chat um chat pane just off to the side here you know in case anyone has any questions or comments as i'm going through um but you know again i just want to start off by uh thanking bill mcdowell and accelerate research for um you know these virtual insights conferences um you know i've i've had the opportunity to um you know to take part and watch um you know many of the past presentations and and they really they really did fit fill that hole that we uh that we had um over the past year where um our networking opportunities have had to evolve so i'm really excited to be able to take part of this and hopefully share a little bit of my perspective from my own little corner of the industry which is um sports media here so um as as you can tell i'm going to be sprinkling in some sports metaphors throughout throughout this um yes i am trying to be cute but it's also you know i i am trying to keep the conversation um and you know the session um as light as accessible as possible so really my whole goal here is to provide insight into what it's like to apply ux research to sports fans experiences and provide an industry perspective on why uxr um opportunities are so few and far between in sports media and you know sort of by extension the broader media and entertainment industry um and then you know just thinking about how this all you know this presentation how it all came to be it really came from um well number one actually i was actually inspired by a previous um previous presentation by um one of my former colleagues jason jacobson a couple of months ago for um for accelerant research he um he shared a prospective perspective piece on comparing um what it's like to work on the supplier side versus you know on the vendor side and you know really just comparing and contrasting how the work the research that we do um how the tenor changes depending on what side of the fence that you work on um so you know thinking about that as inspiration one of the um one of the questions that i get approached with a lot is you know in addition to what's it like to work in sports um media and um how can i get into this it's really you know how you know for the rare opportunities that come up in the space how do i shoot my shot so i so for today's conversation that's a little bit of what i will be covering here and i want to point out here this picture that i dropped in is actually me prior to my current physician um this was before i joined warner media and turner sports in 2017 as you can see even back then i already had aspirations to move into this space so you know hopefully providing a little bit of you know my own experiences and you know essentially carving a path to what i consider myself a dream job might hopefully inspire others to to think about what what they can do to create their own way to help create their own ways so again just a little bit more about me today i am going to be talking and reflecting on my current experience as um as senior manager of ux research within turner sports warner media um but i also want to call out here that prior to this time my entire um ux research background has really been in on the consulting and agency side um and i thought that was a really good um that was really great training ground um because it provided me a lot of exposure to clients across many different industries which gives you a lot of ways that you might be able to apply your skills as a ux research to different types of to help solve different types of business problems so you know you can imagine that our the work that we did with google and facebook you know things like that might feel a little bit different than what we try to help mastercard and wells fargo with that's different than what we would help with the far the big pharma like merc and genentech but you know all that is to say when you have this um wide range of exposure you kind of you begin to under to appreciate how each of these industries are different and what are all the nuances within them that make research or ux researcher more effective in that space i'm also going to call out that um i um i feel like it's important for um for research practitioners to to stay involved and network in um in the broader community um so i try to you know attend um you know various webinars and uh meetup groups um was once much more heavily involved with the nyc user experience professionals association even um actually serving two terms as president uh way back in the day so now all that said um i am going to be focusing on my time at warner media um and this is where i'll pause and you know give the obligatory um uh disclaimer here that the views that i am going to be sharing um in today's conversation are you know purely my own and not intended to represent warner media or turner sports in any way um i'm not sharing anything that is particularly sensitive or proprietary um but you know all that is to say i do want to make sure that it's you know clear and put out there now for um just to get just to help provide a little bit of context um warner media um some people may be familiar with it others might not be and for those who aren't you know necessarily familiar with the warner media overarching brand you have probably you probably know it without even realizing you probably consumed you know content from hbo warner brothers cnn um hbo max being our big one now um you know without realizing that this is all sort of falling within the turner i'm sorry the warner media umbrella so big you know media conglomerate not just sports also includes entertainment news and so forth and for those who have been following uh the news um a t officially um you know officially acquired um us in 2019 i believe that deal was closed and then just uh just this past year um there was a decision made to spin off um warner media from uh atmc who you know who had just um acquired us not too long ago so that um we can spin off and join together with discovery um so that deal has just closed and no we do not know any of the details of what this means for us in our business but you know as you take a look at this sort of updated um list of what you know what all these brands encompass you'll probably recognize most of these brands as you know sort of cable channels right um but turner sports is you know is a little bit of a different animal um and that's where i'm specifically aligned to are our turner sports properties so with turner sports it's not necessarily a channel the same way that for example hbo or tnt true tv cnn um that those are it's um turner sports is really you think of it more as a um a b2b arrangement where we are in partnership with leagues um to have the rights to distribute their live games and official contents on our platforms so you know some of these you know some of these um involve the nba the ncaa um major league baseball we actually just newly acquired the nhl and will be kicking off um nhl on tnt um not to um and not too long in just a few weeks um but these are you know these are the um this is my domain this is the areas that are that i focus on now i think when you think of turner sports probably the first thing that um you guys associated with most closely are these fellas uh this is the uh inside the nba um you might recognize that um this is inside the nba studio crew um they anchor the uh the studio show for the nba on tnt and um you know boy do these guys um bring a lot of fun and um shenanigans to uh to the sport um but um where i tend to focus on as a ux researcher is really more in the development in helping the digital products um so for example um spent a good deal of time working on conducting research for the nba site and app you know it's your standard official league app that provides information stats highlights um news as well as um it's the home of their nba league pass which is their um which is their subscription service that allows fans to be able to stream out of market games so this is you know nba league pass is essentially for that nba super fan who wants to take in as many games as possible um another area of focus of mine um has been supporting the ncaa.com and more specifically their march madness live experience um you know mark this is a march madness live is built very specifically for the men's college basketball tournament so literally that one tournament four weeks of time um you know of relevancy throughout the year but all this you know all this attention and development goes to this because you know this ultimately is a huge business priority a huge revenue generator for uh warner media so you know we with march madness live you know what we're doing here is you know in addition to being that sort of league um official source for information stats and what have you this also enables people to stream all tournament games live for free you know up until a point where they have to authenticate um and do things like complete and uh bracket challenge games uh during the tournament so very um you know similar but similar experience to the nba a lot of overlapping features and content but a completely different context and a completely different experience and finally the wild card of the um of the turner sports brands that um you know that i shared earlier um is glacier report um you know bleacher report itself is not you know is not a league but that is quite literally a digital property that we acquired because it um you know because it has played such an important role in bringing in fans getting eyeballs in um you know in our experience um this is an app or site if you're not familiar that is focused on sports and um adjacent cultural interests like gaming um br kicks you know for the sneakerheads um who collect um and this focuses on multiple sports uh though there is a you know a large concentration a much larger concentration of nba and nfl fans compared to the other the other sports that they provide coverage for so just to start getting into a little bit more about what is actually like to apply uxr in sports media one of the things that i want to call out here is that we've started to really um you know blur the lines between a user experience and an overall fans experience where user experience traditionally has been more about you know interfacing with digital products across platforms what have you um fan experience is our attempt at sort of widening that scope a little bit to gain a more holistic view of the fan which you know includes those pieces of uh what we would call traditional user experience you know discovery but layers in market and consumer insights as well so that we do get you know a much more holistic view of the fan so um our you know fan experience research as we're um calling it now our mission is to develop the best understanding of sports fans and use data driven insights to deliver exceptional and innovative fan experiences and you know what that means for us how we find purpose in you know in filling this mission is by advocating for our sports fans by instilling confidence to our teams that we are building the right things we're building the right um experiences and you know putting together the right content and then ultimately also improving efficiency not just for our end user our fans but as a team who are serving the fans improving our efficiencies for us so as we think about how we introduced these practices um into uh turner sports actually one thing i should mention just for additional context here is that when i started uh when i was brought on in um 2017 to turner sports i was apparently in the entire warner media organization at the time uh the only user experience researcher in house now research as an organization was very sophisticated in you know sort of turner warner media land um but as a um as a sub-discipline within research ux research was a little bit newer and unknown a lot of our um a lot of the um research that had um that traditional media um is really used to is you know a lot more geared towards ratings and measurement and add effectiveness so um you know ultimately research that helps to prove out and maybe spur you know add more to our bottom line through our um through our partnerships with our advertisers um user experience um was a little bit different in that our stakeholders are you know within our own company so it is much more internal um and it's still it would you know bring it on it was a it was difficult to um it was slow to help um to get others to understand what value user experience offers what is the purpose of it and where you know where it complements other forms of insights so when we're thinking about you know when we're thinking about all of this together you know integrating into um processes or you know like content development processes product development processes that did not have um you know ux a proper ux research representation before it takes it takes time and you know as you think about you know as we think about sort of the development life cycle our mission at least in the early days was to try to help them recognize the role of insights and where it can fit in through throughout the product development process and all with the fan at the center so in addition to our user experience um you know sort of our standard user experience type of questions a lot of the questions that we are focused on you know more broadly from a fan experience standpoint um you know we we're we're really trying to uh we've done this exercise to sort of map out and categorize what are all the areas that we touch and in that sense it's almost evolving into a map of what are all the uh you know what are all the variables and factors that affect um what you know from a business standpoint everything lab ladders up to which is audience impact um you know the how do we grow our audience how do we keep them consuming more how do we keep them engaged and then as we peel back the layers of the onion we recognize that there you know we can understand that more if we first take a look at what our fans are doing um what are their behaviors you know from an online and media consumption standpoint and then as you can see you know from this um you know from this area here we start to differentiate that even more you know to to first segregate out um our sports and our non-sports related content non-sports being you know every other form of entertainment news shows movies etc and then within the sports content themselves breaking it down between um the multiple layers you know um of different types of sports content whether that's game content literally uh the live um the live games to the non-game content which is everything outside of the live games you might think of our documentaries interviews features are inside the nba um studio show and then beyond the online immediate consumption there's all these you know ancillary fan activities that you know that are part of their behavior you know things that things like um fantasy uh video games like nba 2k is huge among uh you know nba fans batting um even like um again for the sneakerheads their their interest in um in those types of um gear and shoes and ultimately connecting with the community now aside from what we're trying to uh you know understanding what they're doing it's also really good to get a pulse on where their head where our fines where our fans heads are at and this is where you know we have we have these ever present questions around you know their attitudes and sentiments towards you know particular leagues brands events that are going on um understanding that underlying motivation of why fans are engaging the way that they are trying to get a sense of where sports is prioritized in you know in the grand scheme of their own lives you know what um what chunk of the pie does sports take up and where does it sit in a hierarchy and then all all that also wraps back to you know just their state of awareness um which you know does relate back to a lot of the um behaviors that we pointed out how aware are they um that these are options that they can engage in what have you so taking that even further we're also taking a look at we should also take a or take some consideration for the environment and the landscape you know really those external factors that impact fandom we've certainly had a lot of that over the last um year year and a half but i'm talking about things like technology you know for example um been a huge topic for a long time the uh the cord cutting behaviors where um where consumers are um trading in their traditional cable subscriptions in turn um for other forms of media in particular the streaming services that are that seem to have blown up like gangbusters over the past years and especially in the advent of the pandemic where everyone you know was encouraged to stay home and stay put now speaking of the pandemic that is another um that is another example of things that impact fandom um current events um you know so for example what did the engagement look like um in sports when sports was cancelled completely um and in regards to everything that happened in 2020 you know seeing the um seeing the social justice uh movement last year um really amplified by the voices of and passionate nba players who are um you know who are using their platform to you know to shine lights on these issues and taking very bold stances like sit you know walking out on games these are you know tremendous things that you know aren't even necessarily sports related but then at the um just real quickly on some of the other ones you know everyone um you know does have their own socioeconomic um composition and status that all factors into you know their what they do how they think what have you and then obviously the time of year um specifically just specifically the sports what it means when we say seasonality is what sports are relevant for this particular time of year so we talked about you know the layers and the um and the nuances of what we're trying to learn but then we also recognize here that there's a lot of game and sports related variables that impact their behaviors and mindsets you know and i'm talking you know things like let's say just to start off with how big of a fan they are of that team or sport really that level of ability um your behavior might be different your mindset might be different when you think about is this you know are they playing tonight or you know or not are they not playing for another few days they these are things that we have to consider right you would even have to also consider the concurrence of games with other um with other events you know other games and leagues in the league other sports that are going on right now and their lives and everything outside of sports event match-ups even just you know how exciting would it be to get two you know like to have two marquee teams playing compared to let's say you know the ones that are going to be riding the um the um nba draft lottery um sometimes it's not you know a particularly exciting must-see watch um must-see match-up you also get difficulty of schedule as you know again just another point to consider if this is something that a fan is really going to um is something that is going to impact the fans experience team performance and all the way down to individual player performance and availability it's as you can see there's a lot of you know little layers here to consider and all of these variables are extremely difficult to control so this is when i talk i'll talk a little bit about you know taking all that nuance and complexity um to consider well you know when thinking about doing research with sports plans and talking about how it applies to the fielding and planning and the execution of the research um i mean this is where when i talk about you know when i use the um the title the guts and glory of ux research which i you know i was being a little bit facetious and dramatic but you know i think um just going back to the guts pizza this this is really where um what i'm talking about as far as you know sort of those um really um unique and interesting challenges to to get around um you know so for example timing um timing our fielding according to game schedules or leagues you have to be it requires careful planning and coordination um so it's important to be precise and organized as you're you know as you're trying to uh field and launch research with specific time time boxes in mind um it also um makes us think more deeply about the specificity of the scenarios and prompts that we that we put in front of our participants you know because in a lot of ways you know this is you know our our way of controlling or some of those variables you know a lot of the details that we'll put in sometimes it you know it might be it might go over the head of you know some casual more casual fans but a lot of times you know that that additional level of detail that we might introduce into the scenario or a prompt really helps to make sure that we have them in the right relevant frame of mind you know so saying like for example in a college basketball uh study you know we're in the second round of march madness and there are four games going on at once you know to really help paint that picture um another example you know you receive a notification that the knicks and nets game is 80 to 92 with three minutes left you know so pulling in you know a lot of those contextual details um does help to shape that uh experience you know just does help to shape the research experience and what we're trying to learn what we try to get out of our participants um the same the same applies with regards to minimizing distractions uh with accurate placeholders in our prototypes or any creative materials that we're putting out in front of testing now what it means is that sports fans you know if we're asking them to you know um put themselves in this particular scenario and um you know imagine themselves in that time we also have to make sure that the um you know the contacts with the visual stimuli all um you know are are all in agreement with what that um we're consistent with the uh with the scene that we're trying to paint there um you know we have to make sure that there's you know some level of i wouldn't say accuracy but maybe plausibility um in um you know in the different uh micro details that we put in like let's say for example in the background of the site you'll have um you know various scores of the of games going on making sure that the um that the time left and the uh the quarter that it's in the score are all you know relatively plausible even uh you know even things like depicting a um a blowout um if that's you know part of the scenario that we're trying to uh you know elicit um we have to be careful about which teams we you know we select or you know how when you know when at that point um [Music] in the game we should um you know we should have that data point lots of um you know lots of micro details that you know maybe go um a little bit more invisible to some um to some of our participants maybe not as appreciated but for are in large part um you know our fans do pay attention to those points and that um if they see something that's inconsistent or you know just off with what um with the scenario that they're um presenting it does you know tend to derail the um the sessions that were in the feedback that we're trying to um collect now one thing on top of um on top of this is the fact that we often have to do off-season research which presents its own challenges right so in the examples of bleacher report when we do research for leisure report this is multiple sports so all year round there is some form of live active sport going on so there's more opportunities for incremental product feature release more opportunities for um for testing in you know more of this agile device environment nba is you know somewhat similar as well um you know it is focused on one sport but you've got a long runway um you know from october to june nine months out of the year the nba is in season we're talking about it and this is probably a low estimate too because i don't think we're factoring in the um the potential games in the playoff series but you're talking about essentially 2 500 games over a nine month period so you know again there's um there's always something that we could be doing in engaging fans even in the offseason right because there's you know there's things like the nba giraffe the um summer league where there's still a bit of attention now the real interesting case and this is where um i i go back to you know i'm going to tell some war stories is related to march madness because what we're talking about is um extremely compressed time um to to essentially get a fan experience right um there's no you know there there's very little room for experimentation incremental release because this march madness live site and app is really only active with fresh content for four weeks out of the year really you only have one shot to get it right so um in thinking about what this must mean right four weeks out of the year is when there's you know prime user research uh fielding opportunities what about the rest of the year um you know certainly we can do some you know some forms of studies some testing where it's not as critical to have the um to have our participants be in that specific frame of mind but um but in essence we have to um what we've had to do is really plan carefully around our um limited fielding window of you know something like 20 days if we want to maximize our learnings from this limited window that means multiple work streams multiple markets you know an engaging vendors pulling in stringers from other team to help go through all these data points um and you might be wondering you know that i mean this seems maybe those numbers you know i've seen crazier right but again going back to the point of um traditional media sports media in in warner media's case um is just a little bit uh slower to adopt we have a very small team you know i start um when i was brought on to establish the team in 2017 i was a team of one for about uh two and a half years um we were two and you know a team of two for a while and now i think we are um you know four years out we're we're at almost four so we're growing like gangbusters obviously but um but what i mean is that this is um what i need to point out here is that we are doing this research all you know all at once you know essentially with a very very small team so what it um you know if you want to sort of see what that looks like from a timing and a gantt chart standpoint um you can sort of see here that we have to utilize a lot of our um you know a lot of the pre-tournament to to get to get our ducks in a row so that we can field simultaneous research all at once um and use you know um just field field field collect collect collect and then use this protracted time after the tournament to digest and make sense of it all so it really does become um you know for a logistical challenge um another uh another piece is just being able to pivot on a dime now we had a once in a lifetime event um in 2020 uh where essentially the entire sports world as well as the rest of the world was you know was cancelled was put on hiatus prior to and prior to that we had you know a fairly robust plan for march madness in place you know sort of our um like i was saying you know making sure that we are carefully planning our um concurrent fielding for that limited four-week window so had three streams of work um you know across a few markets um you know some including diaries and idis just getting a whole slew of um of insights but then hey guess what sports sports was canceled in fact sports was canceled on the day that we intended to launch one of our diary studies for fielding so what do we do here what do we do with our time we still have a lot of questions um obviously our questions um you know especially in this rapidly evolving uh situation where we were in march uh mid-march 2020 required us to pivot um so our new plan getting um you know turning our march madness studies into the sports hiatus uh research where we essentially take the same same fans we recruited same overall structure but rejiggered it to um to to help warner media understand what fans are doing and consuming in the absence of light sports like how are they how are they scratching that itch so i talk i talk a lot about you know sort of the more dramatic pieces of um of coordinating um these research efforts but i also want to touch on you know why i've strove to um to work in uh sports applying ux research to sports in some way and i think for me what i you know where what it comes down to which is something that we've seen time and time again in our research is that sports brings people together um so really the upside here or the glory you could call it is that um you know sports is universal we never um you know even though we talk about the complexities and all the layers of a fan finding fans for our studies is not a problem because for a lot of these folks they're passionate passionate about sports and that translates into enthusiastic study participation you know quite literally lower no-show rates you know we love our diary studies and for longitudinal studies you know uh we really want to keep attrition rates down so um you know sports fans are definitely um you know from what i've seen compared to other industries a little bit more motivated to um to stick through long longitudinal studies and why i mean for them it's fun i like for them it's fun and as a as a moderator who is in there with them it's fun for me too it's enjoyable and productive fielding they you know they say things that they're the session like i could talk sports all day or i i could do this for free you wouldn't have to pay me but that's there is real um there is a tremendous amount of joy in um in conducting these types of studies um and you know on top of that you know it's they're excited to be able to see and give feedback for upcoming innovations in sports they're excited to take part in that and to contribute and you know overall you know again going back to this um unifying aspect of sports there's a you know there's sort of a broader mission here in making sports more inclusive and accessible to all so that it continues to be this um this unifying force so why are ux uh our roles in sports media so rare um bill gates said it in 96 and it's still true um all these years later content is still king meaning in the case of digital products and sports media if you build it they will come and um if anyone wants to throw in the chat what movie this is from i will give you kudo points um but you know really what is the holdup you know why why are these why is uxr why does uxr get dunked on in traditional media compared to tech and other um yes field of dreams great points marcella and calvin yes um but um so going back to this what what's the hold up right why is uxr lagging uh compared to tech and other sectors right one is again that concept if they build it they will come there's this um exclusivity in where we're getting uh you know and where the content is available so fans will tolerate that for ux when content access is limited if they don't really have much choice you know they'll they'll suffer you know they'll suffer through some things in order to get the content that they want i'm also talking about inertia here it this is you know traditional broadcast media has been around since the 1920s so it's got a whole century um almost a whole century on some of the other newly emerging industries where uxr is a little bit more embedded and embraced but because the um traditional broadcast media has a deep industry history with established standards and metrics um you know it's really hard to you know almost look at things in a new way and you know sort of recognize that you know this new form of insight this additional form of insight as something that is worth um investing in the same way that we do um research for example um to help our advertisers be more effective so there's a there's still a lot of um um education that needs to happen you know so ultimately you know what we're talking about in traditional broadcast media is a low organizational ux maturity and that you know it does take time to lay down the steps and require you know education and buy-in but um and this is not my graphic this is evan shapiro's in from august 2020 um and you know even just in one year this is all this is already a little bit outdated but as you can see in this you know map of the entertainment and um universe um you will see you know a lot of the traditional broadcast media now sort of co-mingled with tech you know you know especially in the last years we're joining the streaming wars we're increasingly traditional media is increasingly joining the tech world so um so in that sense i see the tie turning i see i see that there is going to be a slow wave of more and more ux researchers being brought into the space so looking ahead um i'm already seeing jobs after jobs popping up that are in this general you know media and entertainment and gaming spaces i mean all of these are um valuable and adjacent disciplines that um you know that are that's just indicating that that growth is happening so for those who are curious and you know are interested in getting um you know getting one of these rare opportunities in um in research in the sports media space um couple suggestions i'll offer here um you know i i don't think that these are necessarily um you know game um you know what do you call it um game changers but they are you know i think it's still important right so keeping abreast of industry news you know so not just sports but also paying attention to to the rest of that ecosystem media entertainment tech and understanding what are the developments in the space one way that you can get a deeper understanding is to actually network with individuals who work in those industries and get you know take some time for informational interviews to get their perspective their understanding their download of the industry um another thing that you might consider is exploring other types of insight roles if there are that come up um in in the space that you want you know perhaps things like analytics or market research consumer insights or even ad sales research is a um it's an area of interest with um you know cross-applicability with you know with the research skills you may already have but might have more entryways um into the into the actual company and of course you could um you know stay observant observe your fellow sports fans and call your own informal insights make use of sports digital products and have a perspective on them and then stay alert stay alive watch the market uh for new leads because the jobs are coming on and on and as you can see more and more of the um more and more of the media tech intersection space is looking to bring on um ux researchers so what do you got to work on here um a few more i guess uh more tactical tips here to offer but another um another opportunity for trivia if anyone wants to drop in the qa or check if anybody recognizes this infographic and who is being depicted doing um a perfect euro step here i'd be curious if anyone um if anyone recognizes this fella but so when the opportunity comes up some of my personal suggestions are you know number one make make use of that cover letter um making your case about why your experience is relevant and important and drawing parallels from your past experience in a lot of ways i almost look more to a cover letter than a resume uh with applicants because i get to see a little bit more of that strategic thinking in how they're representing themselves and how they are um how they are offering themselves essentially as a solution to um to you know filling a role with your work examples i think another big thing is being able to very clearly articulate the objectives approach and your contributions to the work um this isn't you know necessarily specific to the sports piece but it is you know something that we would be you know because you aren't working you know you wouldn't be necessarily working in a vacuum you would be working amongst a team of cross-functional groups to be able to articulate your perspective and what you're trying to do and how you will be doing it in a clear and accessible way is something that we would be looking for as well um understanding your stakeholders making sure that you understand what their goals are and offering up suggestions about how you might be able to help them and then also making sure that you understand your teammates what is your ultimate mission and how how should we work together um i mean i think a lot of these things are things that i would um surface in um in an interview and a hiring process just to demonstrate and set yourself apart from many of the others who who may be trying to get into this field um so i know we're like um i know we're pretty much right at time and i saw a few questions come in um bill should i should i attempt at some of these do we still have time to uh attempt these questions well so just got a note from cliff our next speaker who's running a couple of minutes behind so yeah let's go for it keep it rolling all right sure sure okay so um i am in the chat now um i see a question from gregory uh how do you know that the enthusiasm you're seeing from participating sports pants isn't merely reflective of the sports fans that communicate their enthusiasm to you there are a wider number of disenchanted sports sports fans too yes yes so no absolutely and i don't when i say um enthusiasm i should probably you know i should probably tempt temper that term more with passion actually because you're right um enthusiasm does imply you know positive um you know mostly positive um expressions but it's it but really what we're seeing here is um a deep passion for the sport good or bad so even if they're um you know even if they're expressing you know even if their feelings are not necessarily of the um of the more positive spin they still appreciate the uh the airspace to be able to provide their perspective to share and to vent i'm not sure if that um completely answers your question um but i it it you know we do have that lens on when we um you know when we are taking our participants feedback and you know recognize when you know some things can be called you know um impacted or colored by a certain um aspect moving on to another question uh daniel asks have you ever done a study to try and recruit non-sports people to learn about and um becoming a fan both my son and wife couldn't care less about sports wondering if you had any success with promotion to non-sports fans yes in fact so um by the way rich hollander absolutely correct that was ginobili from the spurs um 10 gold stars for you but um so to go back to daniel's question um yes so while you know what we do focus um well i guess a larger body of our work does focus on established bands we do try to um get um you know a good cross-section of fans for certain types of studies and make sure that we are capturing a range of affinities um in fact in one of our um when one of the studies i referenced in our multi-phase fan journey for march madness um study um you know what we certainly focus on um on a piece on the um more um ardent fans who are going to stick through uh the tournament from beginning to end we also carved out some um time and method and space to make sure that we are talking to um the casuals or the non-fans who are being pulled into that environment you know by by friends or loved ones and understanding what their experiences as well how can we engage them and you know what are what are the points um in in that viewing and that shared experience where we might be able to you know activate them a little bit more so yep definitely a question that circles around as well i think those are the only questions in the q a um any other questions well i had one just piggybacking question off of gregory and you talked about about this and you talked earlier on about other industries that you've you've worked in over the years do you find that enthusiasm among sports fans to ever be a barrier at getting to i don't know some of the more negative or critical opinions um you know you would think but i think for in large part they that hasn't been as much of an issue i haven't had any sports fans necessarily been shy about sharing what aspects of an experience they have a problem with or you know even going off into tangents on like you know disappointing um road game streaks or things like that it but it yes it is definitely um you know it's definitely something that we're uh we we are aware of and try to um you know contextualize as we uh as we sift through the feedback awesome well it looks like we're over time and running into our next presentation i see that cliff has joined so great job great thanks for thanks for leading us off um this is really insightful really appreciate it um which shows more time for us to to wind down but get out of here we got to move on all right thank you guys